Automakers Claim 62 mpg Avg. Fuel Efficiency Goal Would Kill the Industry
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Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Fairfax Station, VA. Formally Long Island :(
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=21621
At least the automakers are speaking up!
Industry leaders plead with the White House to reject the highest proposed increase
In a letter to the Obama administration, an auto industry trade group made its feelings about upcoming fuel efficiency standards perfectly clear. It says that the strictest proposed annual increases would be disastrous to the recovering industry, costing it jobs and sales.
I. 62 MPG by 2025 -- a Horrible Idea?
Written by the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers -- an organization which represents General Motors Comp. (F), Ford Motor Comp. (GM), Chrysler Group LLC, Toyota Motor Corp. (7203), and eight others -- the letter claims that if the White House accepts a proposal to mandate fuel economy increases of 6 percent a year that it would "reduce sales by 14 percent" and correspondingly lead to a 14 percent cut to the 1.7 million auto jobs nationally (a loss of 238,000 jobs).
The advocacy's interim chief John Whatley writes, "Fuel economy and greenhouse gas targets should not be arbitrary numbers, chosen before the necessary analyses are completed. [That] would circumvent the rulemaking process and undermine the ongoing collaborative effort to set sound standards... [The health of the automotive industry] depends on reasonable regulations that provide clarity and certainty, without pricing our customers out of the market or preventing them from choosing vehicles that can meet their diverse needs."
U.S. President Barack Obama currently has several proposals on his desk. They range from the least severe proposed fuel mandate -- a 3 percent per year fuel efficiency increase -- and the strictest -- a 6 percent per year increase. The 3 percent increase would demand a fleetwide efficiency of 47 mpg, while a 6 percent would ask for a whopping 62 mpg fleet-wide average.
Experts working with the White House estimate the 3 percent increase would add $770 to the cost of manufacturing each vehicle, over the next 10 years. A 6 percent increase would add $3,500.
II. Advocates Push for Strict Standards
Despite the costs, some feel the 6 percent increase would be possible. A group of 18 U.S. Senators, including Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) and Dianne Feinstein (D-California) wrote a letter last month to U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) Secretary Ray LaHood and U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) administrator Lisa Jackson. Writes the Senators, "A significant increase in fleetwide fuel economy — six percent annually — is both technically feasible and cost effective for consumers."
The auto industry's reticence to improve fuel economy is also irritating global warming activists. Daniel Becker, director of the non-profit Safe Climate Campaign, states in a Detroit News interview, "It is sad but typical that the automakers are trotting out the same tired excuses for not making efficient vehicles to meet the needs of American facing high gas prices."
Ultimately it's the DOT and EPA's duty to deliver a fuel efficiency proposal for ratification in Congress. However, President Obama commands significant authority as he appointed both Ms. Jackson and Secretary LaHood.
III. A Brief History of CAFE
The U.S. has regulated fleetwide fuel economy since the 1970s under the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) program. In 1978 -- the first year of regulation -- the standard called for an average of 18 mpg for passenger cars.
Fuel economy standards don't force automakers directly to ditch gas-guzzling models like SUVs or pickups, but they do pressure them to adopt technologies like turbocharging, direct injection, diesel engines, and electric drivetrains. Automakers tend to use more efficient models like hybrids to make up for the lower efficiency members of their fleet.
The first major updates to the plan in some time came in 2007. Former President George W. Bush (R) pushed the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 which demanded an average combined fuel efficiency (of both trucks, sedans, and SUVs in the fleet) of 35 mpg by 2020.
Also in 2007, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in the case Massachusetts v. EPA that states had the right to set their own stricter mandates, to the chagrin of President Bush who was a strong proponent of greater power for the federal government.
In the wake of the decision, President Bush's successor, President Obama, pushed states to move up the timetable of fuel efficiencies increases, by extending California's stricter standards nationwide. Under the current plan an average fuel economy of 34.1 mpg would be mandated by 2016, though states have some flexibility.
The increases will cost an estimated $51.5B USD, but will reduce oil consumption by 1.8B barrels and save customers $3,000 USD per vehicle in gas costs.
IV. What's Next?
In the U.S. the price of gas has recently spiked up to over $4 USD/gallon. This is still well below the price in certain regions like Europe and is testament to the U.S. government’s price controls (including incentives). It falls short of even greater price controls in a handful of nations like China, though.
The current plan only runs from 2012-2016. The Obama administration is currently working to extend that plan from 2017-2025. Of course, as President Obama will only be in office until 2016 if he wins another term next year, his successor would have a chance to tweak the policy, much as President Obama tweaked President Bush's plan.
Lawmakers will likely debate proposals from the DOT and EPA later this year, potentially coming to an agreement and setting standards targets through 2025.
In a letter to the Obama administration, an auto industry trade group made its feelings about upcoming fuel efficiency standards perfectly clear. It says that the strictest proposed annual increases would be disastrous to the recovering industry, costing it jobs and sales.
I. 62 MPG by 2025 -- a Horrible Idea?
Written by the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers -- an organization which represents General Motors Comp. (F), Ford Motor Comp. (GM), Chrysler Group LLC, Toyota Motor Corp. (7203), and eight others -- the letter claims that if the White House accepts a proposal to mandate fuel economy increases of 6 percent a year that it would "reduce sales by 14 percent" and correspondingly lead to a 14 percent cut to the 1.7 million auto jobs nationally (a loss of 238,000 jobs).
The advocacy's interim chief John Whatley writes, "Fuel economy and greenhouse gas targets should not be arbitrary numbers, chosen before the necessary analyses are completed. [That] would circumvent the rulemaking process and undermine the ongoing collaborative effort to set sound standards... [The health of the automotive industry] depends on reasonable regulations that provide clarity and certainty, without pricing our customers out of the market or preventing them from choosing vehicles that can meet their diverse needs."
U.S. President Barack Obama currently has several proposals on his desk. They range from the least severe proposed fuel mandate -- a 3 percent per year fuel efficiency increase -- and the strictest -- a 6 percent per year increase. The 3 percent increase would demand a fleetwide efficiency of 47 mpg, while a 6 percent would ask for a whopping 62 mpg fleet-wide average.
Experts working with the White House estimate the 3 percent increase would add $770 to the cost of manufacturing each vehicle, over the next 10 years. A 6 percent increase would add $3,500.
II. Advocates Push for Strict Standards
Despite the costs, some feel the 6 percent increase would be possible. A group of 18 U.S. Senators, including Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) and Dianne Feinstein (D-California) wrote a letter last month to U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) Secretary Ray LaHood and U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) administrator Lisa Jackson. Writes the Senators, "A significant increase in fleetwide fuel economy — six percent annually — is both technically feasible and cost effective for consumers."
The auto industry's reticence to improve fuel economy is also irritating global warming activists. Daniel Becker, director of the non-profit Safe Climate Campaign, states in a Detroit News interview, "It is sad but typical that the automakers are trotting out the same tired excuses for not making efficient vehicles to meet the needs of American facing high gas prices."
Ultimately it's the DOT and EPA's duty to deliver a fuel efficiency proposal for ratification in Congress. However, President Obama commands significant authority as he appointed both Ms. Jackson and Secretary LaHood.
III. A Brief History of CAFE
The U.S. has regulated fleetwide fuel economy since the 1970s under the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) program. In 1978 -- the first year of regulation -- the standard called for an average of 18 mpg for passenger cars.
Fuel economy standards don't force automakers directly to ditch gas-guzzling models like SUVs or pickups, but they do pressure them to adopt technologies like turbocharging, direct injection, diesel engines, and electric drivetrains. Automakers tend to use more efficient models like hybrids to make up for the lower efficiency members of their fleet.
The first major updates to the plan in some time came in 2007. Former President George W. Bush (R) pushed the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 which demanded an average combined fuel efficiency (of both trucks, sedans, and SUVs in the fleet) of 35 mpg by 2020.
Also in 2007, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in the case Massachusetts v. EPA that states had the right to set their own stricter mandates, to the chagrin of President Bush who was a strong proponent of greater power for the federal government.
In the wake of the decision, President Bush's successor, President Obama, pushed states to move up the timetable of fuel efficiencies increases, by extending California's stricter standards nationwide. Under the current plan an average fuel economy of 34.1 mpg would be mandated by 2016, though states have some flexibility.
The increases will cost an estimated $51.5B USD, but will reduce oil consumption by 1.8B barrels and save customers $3,000 USD per vehicle in gas costs.
IV. What's Next?
In the U.S. the price of gas has recently spiked up to over $4 USD/gallon. This is still well below the price in certain regions like Europe and is testament to the U.S. government’s price controls (including incentives). It falls short of even greater price controls in a handful of nations like China, though.
The current plan only runs from 2012-2016. The Obama administration is currently working to extend that plan from 2017-2025. Of course, as President Obama will only be in office until 2016 if he wins another term next year, his successor would have a chance to tweak the policy, much as President Obama tweaked President Bush's plan.
Lawmakers will likely debate proposals from the DOT and EPA later this year, potentially coming to an agreement and setting standards targets through 2025.
At least the automakers are speaking up!
What do politicians know about this stuff really? Don't think realize that the auto manufacturers have been doing what they can to make fuel economy better for a long time? You can't magically make engines & vehicles that much more efficient.
A bunch of those politicians don't even drive themselves anymore. And those that do surely have some of the biggest & nicest vehicles available. I wonder what kind of fuel economy their limos & private jets get?
A bunch of those politicians don't even drive themselves anymore. And those that do surely have some of the biggest & nicest vehicles available. I wonder what kind of fuel economy their limos & private jets get?
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,398
From: Fairfax Station, VA. Formally Long Island :(
Re: Automakers Claim 62 mpg Avg. Fuel Efficiency Goal Would Kill the Industry
What do politicians know about this stuff really? Don't think realize that the auto manufacturers have been doing what they can to make fuel economy better for a long time? You can't magically make engines & vehicles that much more efficient.
A bunch of those politicians don't even drive themselves anymore. And those that do surely have some of the biggest & nicest vehicles available. I wonder what kind of fuel economy their limos & private jets get?
A bunch of those politicians don't even drive themselves anymore. And those that do surely have some of the biggest & nicest vehicles available. I wonder what kind of fuel economy their limos & private jets get?

. Maybe they are running on Flex Fuel
.
Re: Automakers Claim 62 mpg Avg. Fuel Efficiency Goal Would Kill the Industry
The other thread about this wasn't good enough?
https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=811826
https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=811826
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,398
From: Fairfax Station, VA. Formally Long Island :(
Re: Automakers Claim 62 mpg Avg. Fuel Efficiency Goal Would Kill the Industry
The other thread about this wasn't good enough?
https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=811826
https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=811826
Click on the report thread button or get out. This thread is more detailed than the other one in regards to the vehicle manufacturers showing much more resistance.
Re: Automakers Claim 62 mpg Avg. Fuel Efficiency Goal Would Kill the Industry
The other thread about this wasn't good enough?
https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=811826
https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=811826
I hope the auto companies fight this all the way. The future of the automobile is not in oil but a new fuel all together.
Re: Automakers Claim 62 mpg Avg. Fuel Efficiency Goal Would Kill the Industry
too bad that the forum rules restrict political discussions. But is it a political discussion if you are talking about all politicians in general?
Re: Automakers Claim 62 mpg Avg. Fuel Efficiency Goal Would Kill the Industry
There is one large group that supports 60mpg+ CAFE, that that is the American public.
Majority of Americans want 62 mpg CAFE standards; automakers don't
Majority of Americans want 62 mpg CAFE standards; automakers don't
If you want to find examples of ways Americans disagree on politics, all you need to do is turn on any cable news channel right now. But here's a curious case of the majority agreeing on one important point: 62 percent of Americans support an increase in the average fuel economy mandate in the U.S. to 60 miles per gallon by 2025.
That's around the level currently under loose discussion in Washington (which is 62 mpg), and the strong, bi-partisan support is the finding of a survey released today by the Consumer Federation of America, conducted by Opinion Research Corporation under commission.
That's around the level currently under loose discussion in Washington (which is 62 mpg), and the strong, bi-partisan support is the finding of a survey released today by the Consumer Federation of America, conducted by Opinion Research Corporation under commission.
Re: Automakers Claim 62 mpg Avg. Fuel Efficiency Goal Would Kill the Industry
There is one large group that supports 60mpg+ CAFE, that that is the American public.
Majority of Americans want 62 mpg CAFE standards; automakers don't
Majority of Americans want 62 mpg CAFE standards; automakers don't
Re: Automakers Claim 62 mpg Avg. Fuel Efficiency Goal Would Kill the Industry
Ok, but the American public would support legislation for cars to run on pixie dust in the midst of $4 gas. I get the sense that this is kind of a misleading survey because most people don't consider or are not told about the other side of the coin, like what these cars would look like and how much they'll cost.
The easiest and fairest solution is though taxation, but nobody likes that, so we are stuck with CAFE.
In a perfect world they could just raise the gas tax until the average new car purchased met what ever MPG was deemed desirable. Cars could also be taxed by weight or MPG. Lets say weight divided by 500 = the % of sales tax. A 3000lbs. car would be taxed at 6% and a 5000lbs. SUV would be taxed at 10%. If you absolutely must have your 8000lbs. Land Cruiser or H2 then you would pay 16%.
Re: Automakers Claim 62 mpg Avg. Fuel Efficiency Goal Would Kill the Industry
People mainly want lower gas prices. What are the first vehicles to nosedive when fuel prices fall? Hybrids and small cars. Americans still like their big/powerful cars, they just reach a breaking point near $4.
Re: Automakers Claim 62 mpg Avg. Fuel Efficiency Goal Would Kill the Industry
This is why CAFE is flawed. People want more fuel efficient cars, but also what lower gas prices. Lower gas prices encourage people to buy big gas guzzlers. CAFE is supposed to be a way for the public to have their cake and eat it too.
The easiest and fairest solution is though taxation, but nobody likes that, so we are stuck with CAFE.
In a perfect world they could just raise the gas tax until the average new car purchased met what ever MPG was deemed desirable. Cars could also be taxed by weight or MPG. Lets say weight divided by 500 = the % of sales tax. A 3000lbs. car would be taxed at 6% and a 5000lbs. SUV would be taxed at 10%. If you absolutely must have your 8000lbs. Land Cruiser or H2 then you would pay 16%.
The easiest and fairest solution is though taxation, but nobody likes that, so we are stuck with CAFE.
In a perfect world they could just raise the gas tax until the average new car purchased met what ever MPG was deemed desirable. Cars could also be taxed by weight or MPG. Lets say weight divided by 500 = the % of sales tax. A 3000lbs. car would be taxed at 6% and a 5000lbs. SUV would be taxed at 10%. If you absolutely must have your 8000lbs. Land Cruiser or H2 then you would pay 16%.
Re: Automakers Claim 62 mpg Avg. Fuel Efficiency Goal Would Kill the Industry
No the fairest and easiest way is let the free market do its thing. If most Americans want fuel efficient cars they will buy them. I swear some of you guys want government to hold your hand for everything. Gas mileage is king right and if the automakers could get 60 mpg out of cars they would. Its typical politicians pushing their agenda because of high gas prices. All things considered gas is still very cheap.
I agree. Priced in pre-1964 silver US coins it is still only 16 cents a gallon.
Re: Automakers Claim 62 mpg Avg. Fuel Efficiency Goal Would Kill the Industry
No the fairest and easiest way is let the free market do its thing. If most Americans want fuel efficient cars they will buy them. I swear some of you guys want government to hold your hand for everything. Gas mileage is king right and if the automakers could get 60 mpg out of cars they would. Its typical politicians pushing their agenda because of high gas prices. All things considered gas is still very cheap.
Are you pissed that so many jobs are going overseas? That's free market forces that have forced companies overseas so they can compete in the free market. If I own an American made product, I'm going to have to compete with other foreign companies that are cheaper. That means I'm going to have to either move production outside the country (lower labor cost dictated by the "free market"), or the Feds will have to slap import tarriffs on my competitors (not "free market").
The stakes are a thoudsand times higher in the area of gas and oil.
The United States consumes many times more oil per person than anyplace else on the planet. The United States is one of the biggest producers of oil of any country on earth. Yet, we could annex all of Saudi Arabia's oil tomorrow and between the 2 countries, we still wouldn't have enough oil to sustain us.
To be blunt, our oil consumption is the biggest threat to the security of the United States than anything currently threatening us. Consider:
1. We are funding countries that particularly don't like us, and perhaps indirectly terroism.
2. We are venerable to be held hostage by ocoordinated efforts to cut off oil to influence police. That's EXACTLY what happened in October 1973 when OPEC cut off the oil because we supported Isreal in the '73 War.
3. Money that would be going to purchasing goods and services (perhaps even enough to end the recession) is being spent on gasoline. Even local, state, and federal governments have to put far more towards fuel costs at a time of already shrinking revenue and budgets.
4. Finally, the more moeny we spend buying imported oil, the bigger our trade defict becomes.
Leaving everything to the so-called "Free Market" in this case will simply make things worse as the public simply adjusts to higher prices by cutting spending elsewhere, countries that we buy oil from get richer, our trade & deficit grows larger.
Why?
Nothing more than our misguded feeling of entitlement to drive anything we want regardless as to it's impact on the security of the country or the combined effects on the national economy.
It's one thing to drive something because you need to. Or drive something because it's fun and you enjoy it. But how many people really need an SUV that are driving them?
A higher gas tax would chomp oil imports down substantually, increase our security, cut our trade deficit, hack away at our debt, and with the Feds borrwing less and using less for intrest on the debt, there's more money in the economy.
But it seems we don't want that.
And we won't stand to be dictated what to buy either.
So, we're stuck with the worse choice of all. CAFE.
That worse choice preserves the "Free Market" in that you'll be able to buy whatever you want. We always go back to the big gas hungry rides when gas prices stablize. So now, those big rides are going to cost much more and get much higher fuel economy.
....and maybe... just maybe... we'll be a little less dependent on imported oil..
Global warming IMHO is an exaggeration (the earth has gone through warming and cooling periods before in history, well before the automobile). But our venerability to and adverse effects from our massive importation of oil is not.
If we don't start giving a damn, we're going to implode.
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