Darth, I understand that most of Pontiac's lineup is either brand new or only a few years old. And as good as the GTO is, as well as the G6 in terms of replacing the Grand Am, Pontiac still doesn't offer exciting products (other than the GTO). It's good to know that Pontiac has new cars, but that doesn't do any good if the performance isn't there in terms of power,handling etc. Where are the exciting cars? The got to have it cars? As somebody else has said, Pontiac currently does not have any street cred with enthusiasts, which is a shame considering Pontiac is the performance division of GM. My point being, why hasn't or doesn't Pontiac design/produce performance oriented cars? Is the beuracracy at GM that bad?

 

I understand what you mean...

While the cars are fresh and new, they need to be more exciting...

 

I thought Rappers and Escalades were the key to turning around Caddy

But seriously, the L32 3800SIII SC in the G6 would be the shisnitto snip snappitty. Nice wheels, shock revalve, different stabilizer bars and appearance mods. But don't call it the GTO. It should just be the crazy version of the G6.

Maybe G6R or G6X.

 

Who exactly is in charge at Pontiac? Who heads the product development, engineering, brand identity? It just seems that noone cares about Pontiac. You'd think the GM of Pontiac would want exciting models out on the showroom floors. Yet there's nothing. "Oh, yeah lets have a Equinox badged as a Pontiac and call it the Torrent! Hmm, that Toyota Matrix looks like a fun car, lets base the Vibe off it! Lets restyle the Grand Prix to an uglier style and it'll sell!"

I just don't get it. Where's a Delorean or Knudsen when we need them most?

 

OK, call it CanAm.

 

Not really, they had thier own engines and the right people to make them special.

 

Cadillac has the right engines, the right platforms and the right people right now.

 

The problem I see is the corporate sharing of the parts bin. Now GM has some wonderful drivetrains and engines, but I think with the penny pinchers always ruining products, that a less that competitive car gets approved in the name of cost savings.

Back in the 60's and 70's when Pontiac was at its peak, what was the difference? Pontiac Engines and suspensions made by Pontiac Engineers. Those designers and engineers were always striving to create a bad *** machine with big performing engines. Tri-Power 389, RamAir III, Ram Air IV, Super Duty, 455 etc. Pontiac at that time had incredible engines. Now with corporate engines, that has all changed. (Don't get me wrong the LS* series engines are amazing, but it's not the same.)

Plus the beuracracy at GM seems to hamper them. Too bad there's noone in charge at Pontiac or GM that has the guts to make Pontiac an aggressive division.

 

Yes and no.

They certainly don't have the latitude with powertrains that they used to have back in the day. But Pontiac is currently the only user of the Series III SC 3800 on the planet - it's a Pontiac exclusive engine by default now. They also will have a 250 hp turbo version of the Ecotec soon for Solstice. And what ever happened to the SC HV 3.5/3.9?

I'm not saying powertrains are plug and play as they were in the '50's and '60's....but even the casual observer can see some possibilities here.

 

Can I ask when did they make exciting cars? IMO, they are hell of a lot mroe exciting then what we had 5, 10 and 15 years ago.
And dont say "Firebird", cause if they were so "gotta have" and so "omg omg omg omg fap fap fap" then howcome they sold at such **** poor numbers near thier death? Maybe back in the 80's, but 90's...
Couldnt be that gotta have. There was a GP GTP, and thats it. Not hot 2dr RWD roadster, no 303 hp V8 Grand Prix, No 240hp Grand Ams with 6spd manuals with optional hard top convertable.
I will agree that they dont have a lot, but they are doing MUCH better then they were only a few years ago. They just arent relevent anymroe, especialy with the Chevy rehashes they get, and with Saturn moving up, there is no point in Pontiac.

 

How about the 1989 3.8L turbo anniversary TA and the 1988 fiero gt?

 

and the 92 firehawk.

 

It's as relevant as GM wants it to be. That's what really bugs me about this. All GM needs to do is give Pontiac the right product and they will fly. The G6 is nice, but could be sold as a Chevy, Saturn or Buick without anything more than a badge change. If given the right product and advertising, Pontiac could be what it used to be - a great youth brand.
Pontiac needs the Solstice. It's something hot, and it's a Pontiac through and through. Let's hope the success is enough to make GM see that Pontiac is worth saving.

 

Big Al, I see your point. The point I was trying to make is that in Pontiac's history they always had cars in development that was performance oriented that probably would have been great if GM had let them loose.

Examples: The Banshee concept back in the 60's that eventually became the Firebird based on the Camaro Chassis. A 2 seater roadster that got squashed by Chevy because of no inhouse competition for the Vette (if the story is true).

The Fiero: Unbeleivable car in concept form that got castrated by a weak 4 cylinder offering, though Pontiac had grand plans for it. Plus the other cars otehrs have already stated, the TTA, 92 Firehawk,hell even the Mclaren Turbo Grand Prix.

My point is Pontiac always had performance benchmarked for their cars but were usually gutted by GM.

 

I agree that Pontiac could be good a youth brand....although I don't agree that that's what Pontiac has always been.
Ok, what does that mean product wise? Solstice at around $20K fits I think. Vibe fits I think. Does a FOURHUNDREDHORSEPOWER, $32,000+ car fit? Think about that for a minute...."youth brand", 400 hp and $32,000....do they go together?.
And G6, how will that capture the imagination of this segment?

You know, alot of things could be more clear cut if Saturn never existed. Not only is Saturn becoming the new Oldsmobile, it's going to start crowding struggling Pontiac also.