Jason E

Because I'm a complete nerd, I have every Motor Trend magazine dating back to June 1979 (I call the collection "My Education" ), I was sifting through back issues trying to find the road test they did in July, 1990 of a '91 Camaro RS vs. a 5.0 LX. Just for ha has (this has nothing to do with my actual post), here's the specs for those interested...

RS

305 TBI = 170hp @ 4,000 RPMs, 255 lbs/ft of torque at 2,400 RPMs
Axle = 3.08 open
Transmission = T-5
0-60 = 7.9 sec
1/4 mile = 16.1 @ 87 MPH
60-0 = 143 ft
Lateral Acceleration = .90g
600 ft slalom = 63.3 MPH

LX 5.0

302 = 225hp @ 4,200 RPMs, 300 lbs/ft of torque at 3,200 RPMs
Axle = 3.08 Traction-Lok
Transmission = T-5
0-60 = 6.2 sec
1/4 mile = 14.8 @ 96 MPH
60-0 = 145 ft
Lateral Acceleration = .88g
Slalom = 64.2 MPH (looks like the 302 overcame the inferior chassis to beat the RS!!)

Anyway, also in the same issue was a road test of an Oldsmobile Toronado Trofeo (the fancy-a** one) versus a 325i coupe. Odd, right? Even they admitted it. Anyway, a quote on the comparison from Oldsmobile:

"Buyers whose purchase decision is driven by image will seldom consider an Oldsmobile. However, there is a substantial market of buyers who purchase for other reasons, such as price/value, quality, styling, and roominess/comfort. It is to these buyers Oldsmobile hopes to appeal."

Background: Olds sales tanked in the early 1990s, and never recovered. All of the aspects that were supposedly catered to by Olds all were supposed to CREATE an image.

I know this is old news, but I read that quote and shed a tear. With the division admitting it wasn't even trying to create an image, how did it ever stand a chance? I wish there was someone to choke for that one Can anyone even IMAGINE a GM press release so asinine these days?????

No wonder we find ourselves where we are today...

Jason E

By the way, the Camaro/Mustang test was a draw, based on the Stangs speed vs. the Camaro's looks and handling...

Good Ph.D

That doesen't tell me much... Could be an underhanded shot at the bimmer crowd saying they value image over what really matters.

Jason E

In the context of the article, the quote is what it is...basically admitting that "we don't have an image, but we have so much else to offer."

And as we all learned in Car Sales 101, image is what matters most!!! I can't wait for the day someone says to me "well, its a Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep/Chevy" when justifying their auto purchase, instead of always hearing "well, its a Honda/Toyota" when I hear people justify their Japanese car purchases to me

(I had to throw Chevy in that quote seeing as how I eat/sleep/breathe GM, despite getting paid to sell DCX )

F1GT

I also have that issue still. As I recall it was a white Camaro and red Mustang with the western theme background.

Have you gone back to the 1989 issue with the Mitsubishi 3000GT on the cover where inside there was an article with the pewter/greenish color 4th gen? I lost that issue

Jason E

Indeed, it is Its sitting next to me as I type this What's sad is that I hadn't looked at this issue in 2-3 years minimally, yet I knew the EXACT issue date to find the article in Like I said, I'm a complete nerd...

And yes, I do have the 3000GT cover one, and sadly enough, I REMEMBER sitting at my parents kitchen table, age 9, staring at the concept 4th gen. I was sooooo mad My parents '89 RS was 6 months old at that point, and the 4th gen made me want to :hurl: in that pic...

Even today, in my own driveway 17 years later (wow...its been THAT long????), IMO my RS is a better looking car than my 30th, without question. The 30th looks evil, with the squintier nose (I never did like the LS1 nose, hence my purchase of an LT1 when I could have bought LS1s for less $$!!!) and those big ol' orange stripes...

But, to me, there is perfection in the lines of a 3rd gen. The '91-'92 RSs, sans the Z28's asinine spoiler and hood blisters, but with the '91-'92 scooped ground effects, are perfection to me. I said for years that if I couldn't find/afford the IROC I wanted, a '91-'92 305/M5 RS was the perfect substitute...

And looky what I found 6 short weeks ago

F1GT

I agree, the 3rd gen Camaro looks better for it's time than the 4th gen for it's time period. When the 82 Camaro came out it made the cover of every major automotive magazine on the planet! I will always love the 82-84 red Z28's w/ silver extensions and the black 85-87 Irocs with the gold accents. I dont like the 88-90 wheels as much. When I heard that the IROC was going to Dodge in 1990 and saw the return of the 91 Z28, I was disappointed. The wheels, the deck spoiler, the longer chin spoiler....so when the 93 Camaro came out, it was still ugly compared to my beloved IROC, but it was new and it grew on me. I really liked it when SLP came out with the SS,,,,I had a completely diff view of it after seeing it with those ZR1's and hood.

There was an issue back in 88 where they tested the IROC, Firebird and stang. 3 photos of them corning hard to the left. Those pics were AWESOME. The days before everyone was so into lowering cars.....

and congrats on the RS!!

flowmotion

I remember reading that issue as well. I had the impression that they were doing GM a bit of a favor by comparing the Olds to the BMW. Very different cars.

Good Ph.D

Wow

Chrome383Z

Why didn't they use the L98 for the comparison instead of the L03?

Jason E

I have that issue too IIRC, it was a 350/A4 IROC vs. a 305/M5 Formula vs. an AT Mustang GT...and I think that was the order they finished in, too

I also remember receiving the issue where (I think this one was dated 12/89 or 3/90???) where they tested the last IROC, and showed pics of the new Z28. I too wanted to puke, again at age 9 I have coveted IROCs forever, and still plan to buy one, especially if the 5th gens don't have t-tops

Thanks for the congrats on the RS...I bought the RS to drive, not look at...I've owned it for 6-7 weeks now, and put almost 2,000 miles on it already (1,000 from my just-finished 6 day trip up the cost of Maine and back). The Z looks like a garage queen despite having 62,000 miles on it...I've only put 600 miles on it all year since putting it back on the road for the year in March!! All the Z needs are fresh stripes (a couple sections are chipping along the edge from waxing and washing it so much ) and re-clearcoated wheels (you can only compound brake dust marks out of white wheels for so long before the clear is duller than hell!!!!) to be factory mint...and that's the way it will stay. Now that I have the RS, I doubt the Z will go over 1,000 miles a year...

The RS, on the other hand, while mechanically perfect (having just done a full tune up, shocks, struts, brakes, etc...I mean PERFECT!!!!), it looks great from 5 feet but up close it clearly needs a total respray (a lot of dust stuck in the 3 year old paint) and the interior gutted and re-done. Its completely accpetable to everyone but a nut like me. The carpet is clean but faded, so that's going. The headliner and sunvisors sag in a few spots, so those are being ripped out, along with new sail panels. I'm still researching where to get OEM leather for it...Classic Industries does not sell it, and I think its awesome to see a 3rd gen RS with leather!!! The leather is clean but hammered from the sun...its dried up, and no amount of leather conditioner will save them. If I can't find replacement leather, I'll be converting the car to the optional custom cloth interior that was available from 88-92, in the same grey...I can get replacement cloth from Classic. I don't want that vinyl junk they sell in place of leather!

Other than a set of glass t-tops to replace my crap Lexan ones, its perfect. All the dash, door panel and console hardware is amazingly perfect, everything works, and I couldn't ask for an easier beginner project car It doesn't even have any rot...only a little rust on the inside of the LF fender and under the hatch!!!

Sorry to go on and on about my 3rd gen...I just love it Indeed, the article does seem to paint Olds in a decent light for comparing to a BMW, but still...that comment???

Regardless, I've always loved Trofeos Don't ask me why...I always thought they were cool!

Jason E

The idea stated in the article were that these were "the 2 cheapest V8s on the planet"...hence the use of an LX and an RS. RS's top motor was the mighty 305 TBI

I will say one thing...she's flat dead after 4k, but its fun and torquey around town and phenomenal on the highway. At 75, its spinning just under 2,500, aka the torque peak I have to be careful on the highway, because it will go from 75-90 on the highway with ease if you aren't careful.

All the while getting 25 MPG climbing the mountains in Maine this past week The 305 gets better mileage, on the same route, than my 2.8 '89 RS got back in 2001!

CLEAN

D*mmit Jason, now you're making ME want one!

95 Z/28 LT1

Hahaha, you went up Cadillac mountain?

Jason E

You can pick up a mint, perfect, original '91-'92 RS on eBay for under $8k...under $7k if you look hard enough. If you don't mind a few squeaks and rattles, and a 0-60 time in the high 7s, IMO its hard to beat one of these cars for the money. Mine turns as many heads as the 30th does (probably because its so clean), and is a blast to drive. I can't get over the MPG, either!

By the time I'm done with a $2,000 paint job, $1,000 in interior work and $750 or so in welded in SFCs and an STB, I'll probably have nearly $7k in this one with almost 110k, so it isn't exactly what I'd call a more economical route, despite having purchased it for $1,000. But it will be mint, and much of it new. Plus, with this many miles, I have no issue wracking up a whole lot more and not feeling guilty about it, versus the IROC I hope to buy with 30-40k miles on it, and not drive more than 1,000 miles a year (the same now goes for my Z28).

If I bought a low mileage original off eBay, I'd never want to drive it, like the above mentioned cars. The fun of owning this one is bombing around in it I highly recommend to anyone looking for a cheap, fun, reliable car to look into one of these...I couldn't be happier having my garage queen and my cruiser