I think we all need Gas-X for the brain from time to time.

 

Is it inside info or just plain gossip? In all the years I've been posting on this board and others I've never come across anything the public didn't already know via some article...

 

I'm afraid guionM is all wet when he says we shouldn't worry about the 5th-gen F-body. Here's a snippet from an article in the Wall Street Journal from a couple of days ago:

"Zeta was GM-speak for a new architecture and associated tooling that was going to deliver a host of new rear-wheel drive cars in the next few years, breathing life back into tired lines at Pontiac, Buick and Chevy and helping GM catch up with the sales pace being set by Chrysler's hot new 300 and Ford's hot new Mustang. Rumors abounded that GM would even revive the sporty Camaro and Firebird, dropped three years ago because GM's aging solid-axle rear-wheel drive technology wasn't up to snuff by today's standards.

Zeta was dropped last month, a direct response to a precipitous decline in GM's sales, the fizzing out of expectations for several new models, a sharp drop in the company's share price and a downgrading of its bonds by rating agencies.

GM made an effort to imply that Zeta resources were being deployed to speed up redesigned pickup trucks and SUVs, which will begin to appear next year. This was smokescreen. Zeta was shelved to free up money in coming years to meet the pension and health-care obligations to workers -- money that manifestly won't be coming from sales of G6s, Cobalts and LaCrosses, the new models that GM had nursed high hopes for."

Sources don't come much more respected or researched than the Wall Street Journal. I think we all have a lot to worry about now.

 

I am afraid you don't know what the hell you are talking about. Read the board including the Zeta-lite post by Z284ever. If you had been reading here you would know he has contacts deep within GM and what he says can be taken almost straight to the bank.

 

I used to be hopeful that GM management would pull their head out of their asses, but I ain't getting any younger waiting for that to happen, and I ain't waiting around while they stroke me. I think they leak BS just to string folks along while they all stand around in some corner playing with themselves. Ford and Chrysler get it, while GM churns out overpriced cars that miss the mark. Silverado SS, yeah, I'll pay that for the slowest "hot pickup" After 23 years of being a diehard Chevy man, I'm moving on. They have plenty of time to produce crap like the cobalt and umpteen different SUV's, but can't build an affordable RWD car that a car guy would want? The latest is a ripoff of the PT cruiser for crying out loud. Pretty pathetic if you ask me. If GM had to put up or shut up, you'll only hear the crickets. They are stroking everyone. I have seen nothing in the last few years since the demise of the F body to prove otherwise. Keep hoping if you want to, but until I see them actually DO something other than talk a bunch of ****, I won't believe a word they say. The Camaro is dead and gone, and I doubt it'll ever come back. I said it, I accept it, and I am moving on.

 

Remember you said that in about 18 months.

 

If you think the Wall Street journal knows what's happening behind the scenes at GM, you need to take a long walk off a short pier. WSJ has business analysts, not insiders. They speculate & guess. They look at things from a "What would I do, if I were running that business to make more profit" standpoint, that may apply to appliences, banks, or department stores, but has zilch to do with automobles.

To be completely blunt, they don't know jack about what GM's planning. Meanwhile, here on the site, I'm sure there's probally a dozen or so of us that do. You have people on this site directly involved in what's going on at GM, and those who aren't, know people who are.

So read this slowly and carefully:

GM is not and has not derailed any future products that were already in the pipeline, nor are they going to....... PERIOD!!!

 

Oh-h-h-h-KAY! Y'know... I've been trying for a long time now to get the clear and true picture as to exactly why GM dropped the Camaro and Firebird... and the Wall Street Journal has just made my day with this eye-opening and incredibly accurate commentary/explanation as to the why and wherefore behind this decision!
The author of that article needs to give lessons on how to lose all credibility in one easy sentence!

Best regardSS,

Elie

 

On and On, and On it goes! Man I wish ppl would once and for all, realize that "The Papers" are not the place to get your GM news period. Like GUY said They don't know JACK, get it straight ppl! If some of you guys don't even believe what Red says, I don't know what to tell you. I guess just keep reading those bird cage liners! I was wondering how long it would take for someone to mention the Zeta-lite thing! Take guys advice READ THIS FORUM, and read it slowly and carefully, cuz this is the place wear you get the real scoop on Camaro/Firebird news, or better yet anything GM. I would bet RED won't be giving any scoop to the WSJ. Its thanks to guys like Red, Guy, Z284ever, and any others I'm sure I missed who have inside info, these are the guys who make it so we get some tidbits. P.S. The PT cruiser was a rip-off of the old GraveDigger (CHEVY) body, thats my story and I'm stickin' to it!

 

I know I'll be flamed for this, but...

Despite what guionM and anyone else on this board working inside, or otherwise knowledgeable about, GM's design and engineering departments believes, our beloved Camaro is not likely to resurface in '08. I've read this message board (including this thread) from top to bottom, and I maintain that we will probably not see a new F-body for a looong time.

First of all, I'm on your side. I LOVE my Z28 and I want to buy another. I don't want a "retro" Mustang. I don't want a four-door Charger. I want a Z28, solid axle and all.

Having said that, things have changed radically in the past few months at The General. Bob Lutz has been reassigned. Waggoner is now directly in charge of N. American operations. And the bean-counters know more about what we'll see on the road in 3 years from now than the designers and engineers do. That's because they're calling the shots now. GM's bonds are junk status according to S&P (and Moody's and Fitch may follow). Things are truly bleak and mgmt can't afford many missteps.

The sales of the successors to perennial best-sellers--the Cavalier, Grand Am, and LeSabre--are mediocre at best. These are bread-and-butter products for GM, and they really worked on making these more competitive cars. But it's clear that they're not competitive enough. Ironically, GM is more dependent on truck/SUV sales now than ever before.

Now when GM isn't competing effectively against Corollas and Camrys, are they really worried about competing against Mustangs and Chargers? Sadly, no. There are no more sacred cows.

We all know Camaro sales fell off a cliff during the last few years of production. Camaro has the most die-hard fans, but there are considerably fewer of us now who actually still want to buy one. All these factors put together mean that the next F-body will be just about the last project to get funded.

I understand that the WSJ reporters aren't car guys. But they do have a line to the finance guys that the enthusiast mags don't. They are spot-on when they say that GM is in a world of hurt financially.

But even if you do place all your faith with what the "car guys" say, take a look at the June 2005 issue of Car & Driver, page 38. There is much less hope for the F-body. I hope I'm wrong.

 

Sorry John but a lot of what you said is wrong. GMs replacement for the above mentioned cars ARE doing quite well, except the LeSabre's replacemnt which isn't out yet. Also the Malibu is in the top 20 in sales, Impala is also. The GMT355s are the best selling small trucks in the US. GM has a lot of momentum going and it is just NOW starting to release Lutz design era cars. Don't pass judgement yet.

 

Popular Hotrodding mag has reported that GM has adopted a slash and burn policy regarding new product. IMO they have more credibility than WSJ.

 

Beta was a spin off of Kappa

People need to remember the Zeta name is dead, but Sigma, Kappa, Zeta/Sigma-lite, and VE RWD platforms are NOT Dead.

The Hollden VE article from a week or so ago gave the best explenation of how Zeta was just a name. For those that didn't read the article Zeta was basically just the North American name for the Holden VE platform. Holden VE production starts within about a year

 

...and plenty of VE Commodore pilot build cars have already been run down the production line at Elizabeth.

VE ain't dead. And Zeta is what VE used to be, and what VE is again. Only the "Zeta" bit is gone, leaving us with exactly what we had before...

 

We have Kappa which doesn't seem likely but the Sigma for the new CTS in 07 seems like the best choice. The CTS uses a 2.8 v6 and 3.6 v6 and the ls2. This sounds like a great platform to use. Plus the CTS-V handles very well so this could be it or a so-called Sigma-Light. I personally think GM must come out with a 2 door rwd v8 coupe/conv....Camaro plus! They need a RWD 4-Door Sedan badly!