35 MPG CAFE by 2019 might become a reality
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 131
Bob Lutz had the best quote on this. I'll paraphrase.
"Trying to reduce gas consumption by legislating fuel economy is like trying to reduce obesity by reducing the available sizes of clothing."
Increasing the gas tax is the only way to make this a true cause-and-effect choice for people. If you buy a gas hog, don't complain about the cost of gas when you're using more and more of it...
"Trying to reduce gas consumption by legislating fuel economy is like trying to reduce obesity by reducing the available sizes of clothing."
Increasing the gas tax is the only way to make this a true cause-and-effect choice for people. If you buy a gas hog, don't complain about the cost of gas when you're using more and more of it...
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 1,547
From: Panhandle of West Virginia
With the Democrats in control I think they will pass it, but hopefully Bush will veto it. If a Democrat wins the presidency who knows what will happen.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- The U.S. Senate Commerce Committee Tuesday approved a bill that would raise the passenger fleet automotive fuel standard to an average 35 miles per gallon by 2020.
The measure passed on a voice vote. Two leading Republicans on the committee, Ted Stevens of Alaska and Trent Lott of Mississippi, expressed reservations about the bill and how it would apply to domestic automakers and the proposed standard for light trucks.
"I am very concerned about the overall fairness," Lott said. "We need to make sure we are fair across the board to all manufacturers. There are some inherent disadvantages, especially on the truck issue."
The bill would also mandate a mileage standard for the first time for medium-duty and heavy-duty trucks.
Major automakers including Toyota Motor Corp., General Motors Corp.and Ford Motor Co.oppose the bill, saying the proposed standard would represent too steep a rise and be too costly to achieve.
A House of Representatives committee is working on its own plan to increase what are known as the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards. Congress is under pressure to finalize legislation that would give automakers enough time to adopt changes.
The bill should go to the full Senate for debate and a vote in June, lawmakers said.
"After more than two decades of inaction on fuel economy issues, this is a step that is long past due," said Democrat Dianne Feinstein of California, a key sponsor of the bill.
The Senate Commerce Committee also approved an amendment that would prohibit price increases for gasoline during national emergencies, such as those declared by the federal government after a devastating hurricane or flood.
The measure passed on a voice vote. Two leading Republicans on the committee, Ted Stevens of Alaska and Trent Lott of Mississippi, expressed reservations about the bill and how it would apply to domestic automakers and the proposed standard for light trucks.
"I am very concerned about the overall fairness," Lott said. "We need to make sure we are fair across the board to all manufacturers. There are some inherent disadvantages, especially on the truck issue."
The bill would also mandate a mileage standard for the first time for medium-duty and heavy-duty trucks.
Major automakers including Toyota Motor Corp., General Motors Corp.and Ford Motor Co.oppose the bill, saying the proposed standard would represent too steep a rise and be too costly to achieve.
A House of Representatives committee is working on its own plan to increase what are known as the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards. Congress is under pressure to finalize legislation that would give automakers enough time to adopt changes.
The bill should go to the full Senate for debate and a vote in June, lawmakers said.
"After more than two decades of inaction on fuel economy issues, this is a step that is long past due," said Democrat Dianne Feinstein of California, a key sponsor of the bill.
The Senate Commerce Committee also approved an amendment that would prohibit price increases for gasoline during national emergencies, such as those declared by the federal government after a devastating hurricane or flood.
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY
Bush is the one that wants to raise CAFE. Although the Dems would never stop him. Some one needs to replace CAFE with a better system, of course the best system is probably a $1+ gas tax or up the current gas guzzler tax system.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 1,547
From: Panhandle of West Virginia
Is he trying to raise it this much? I know he was for the first increase, but I have not heard of him supporting this large jump. If he is it just solidifies my opinion of him.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,817
From: O-Town
Increasing mileage will not decrease gas consumption, if anything it could drive it up since people will be able to go farther on the same gas they will do more driving. The only real thing we can do to reduce oil consumption, is reduce the oil coming into the country with some kind of alternative fuels, whether it be ethonal or something else. Just my opinion.
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 439
From: Northern VA
Gas Tax. A big one. We don't understand anything that doesn't hit us directly in the wallet.
To get to 35mpg with existing vehicles, roughly 40% of energy from fuel needs to go into pushing the vehicle down the road. Right now, we are at roughly 25%. These folks have some fair ideas- http://www.oilendgame.com/ReadTheBook.html
And, don't the flex fuel vehicles get some BS CAFE pass, like the Flex Tahoe being rated at 33mpg or somesuch?
To get to 35mpg with existing vehicles, roughly 40% of energy from fuel needs to go into pushing the vehicle down the road. Right now, we are at roughly 25%. These folks have some fair ideas- http://www.oilendgame.com/ReadTheBook.html
And, don't the flex fuel vehicles get some BS CAFE pass, like the Flex Tahoe being rated at 33mpg or somesuch?
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,977
From: SeVa
...and what full size truck gets that today?
Increasing mileage will not decrease gas consumption, if anything it could drive it up since people will be able to go farther on the same gas they will do more driving. The only real thing we can do to reduce oil consumption, is reduce the oil coming into the country with some kind of alternative fuels, whether it be ethonal or something else. Just my opinion.
Increasing mileage will not decrease gas consumption, if anything it could drive it up since people will be able to go farther on the same gas they will do more driving. The only real thing we can do to reduce oil consumption, is reduce the oil coming into the country with some kind of alternative fuels, whether it be ethonal or something else. Just my opinion.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY
...and what full size truck gets that today?
Increasing mileage will not decrease gas consumption, if anything it could drive it up since people will be able to go farther on the same gas they will do more driving. The only real thing we can do to reduce oil consumption, is reduce the oil coming into the country with some kind of alternative fuels, whether it be ethonal or something else. Just my opinion.
Increasing mileage will not decrease gas consumption, if anything it could drive it up since people will be able to go farther on the same gas they will do more driving. The only real thing we can do to reduce oil consumption, is reduce the oil coming into the country with some kind of alternative fuels, whether it be ethonal or something else. Just my opinion.
Registered User
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,043
From: Shelbyville, IN
Silverado 2WD 5.3L gets 22mpg. A Silverado with a smaller Diesel could easily get 25mpg. AFM 4.8L w/ DI would probably do dman good too. Plus we have the 2 stage hybrids coming out in a year. My point is 25mpg isn't out of the question today. By 2019 35mpg might be a realistic (yet probably still high) for a pickup to get.
But to even come close we are going to have to have lighter weight (tough on a truck) so thats going to increase costs.
Smaller Engines which will decrease power. Probably more diesels which I dont' know how the new low sulfur diesel will fair in costs.
Smaller Trucks. There's no doubt for a truck to get high mpg they are going to have to decrease in size and increase aerodynamics.
Think 4x4 Ute.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 824
From: North of Cincy
I think I just saying that raising taxes is the last thing I want to hear. What do I know, I just analyze business for a living.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 681
If you increase the CAFE requirements, then the purchase price of vehicles goes up. Less vehicles are sold, production goes down, and unemployment increases. This could lead to a recession as well.
If you increase fuel taxes, then income or other taxes can be decreased. No net effect on the economy, except for fuel use.
If you increase fuel taxes, then income or other taxes can be decreased. No net effect on the economy, except for fuel use.
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,502
I've been supporting a higher gas tax for a long time -- but with fuel prices at a all time highs -- not going to happen.
Hopefully within the next 2-3 years the middle east situation will settle down which should push gas prices back down. Then maybe the politicians will consider dumping CAFE in return for a much higher gas tax.
Note that even if nothing is done, GM is still going to have to work hard to improve their fuel economy because people are wising up and consumer preference is moving away from big trucks, big crossovers, and big cars.
Hopefully within the next 2-3 years the middle east situation will settle down which should push gas prices back down. Then maybe the politicians will consider dumping CAFE in return for a much higher gas tax.
Note that even if nothing is done, GM is still going to have to work hard to improve their fuel economy because people are wising up and consumer preference is moving away from big trucks, big crossovers, and big cars.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 824
From: North of Cincy
If you increase the CAFE requirements, then the purchase price of vehicles goes up. Less vehicles are sold, production goes down, and unemployment increases. This could lead to a recession as well.
If you increase fuel taxes, then income or other taxes can be decreased. No net effect on the economy, except for fuel use.
If you increase fuel taxes, then income or other taxes can be decreased. No net effect on the economy, except for fuel use.