340HP/390tq HEMI vs. 184HP BMW, I'm I'm not going to lose any sleep over 3-4mpg

 

That will be interesting to watch. I'm sure that GM might have great interest in keeping an eye on the RWD LX's consumer acceptance as well.

Personally, I am smitten. Of course I may be an easy mark. Not everyone will be willing to buy because they like the feeling of a HEMEEEE torque curve under their right foot.



About "auto only" being a deal killer...I am sympathetic. I have never bought a new car (other than for the wife), which didn't have a manual trans. My Magnum R/T test drive had me considering.....for the first time...a slushbox car for myself.

Of course, if it were available with a six speed though............

 

I think it makes perfect sense. GM is giving $5,000 discounts off of MSRP because people don't perceive the Impala to be of great value. If the car was of great value for the sticker price, it would not be discounted. Since the 300 is selling w/o large discounts, clearly it is priced in line with its value to consumers.

 

OK. Let's play the GM pricing game (which IMHO is idiotic and assinine since GM still sets MSR prices) since people still like to use out the door "Let's make a deal price despite the fact that these final prices varies dealer per dealer and region to region.

Let's stop off at the Chevrolet dealer and check the opening price of the Chevrolet Impala. (http://www.chevrolet.com/impala/)

You can get $3000 cash back & a $1000 loyalty discount if you currently drive a GM vehicle. If there is any NATIONAL GM SANCTIONED DISCOUNT that I'm missing beyond that $3,000, please post it along with related requirements or guidelines. I'd really like to see it.

Now, since even rental companies don't buy base Impalas, we'll move directly to the LS at $25,345. Just the leather seat option & nothing else, I have a car with a list price of $25,970. Add in my rebate of $3K and a 1K loyalty discount, and I have a $21,970 car. A decent price, but unless I'm buying an applience, it's not going to be a car that I'd buy.

Move to the Impala SS with supercharger. Opening bid is currently $28,095! I don't order any options because I'm a cheap SOB, so add in the $4,000 in incentives and I have a 240 horse front wheel drive car that looks like the car we've been seeing for the past 7 years for $24,095.

Now let's go to check out Chrysler. (http://www-5.chrysler.com/buildandpr...ListModels.jam)

Starting May 1st, Chrysler offers up to $3,500 discount and $1,000 bonus cash if you go through Chrysler financial. Bet you didn't know that.

Since I skipped the base Impala and went to what everyone is likely to actually buy, I'll do the same at Chrysler and go straight for the 300 Touring at $27,395. Seems like a higher price till you realize I get 50 more horsepower via an HO 3.5 V6 engine (10 more than the blown Impala at $2,000 more). I also get leather standard. I also get heated electric fold away mirrors. Tilt/telescopic steering wheel, 17" wheels, power lumbar adjustment, electronic stability control, fog lamps, leather shift and steering wheel are other standard items you get with the price along with head turning looks.

Although at that price, it's still worth the cover charge, Chrysler is still offering a rebate. Although Chrysler is offering up to $4,500 back, lets handicap it at $3,000. Is the 300 Touring worth $24,000? Hell yea! If Chrysler is giving the full $4,500, then you start feeling like you are raping Chrysler when you buy one.

Moving to the 300C at $32,995, you pay $4,000 more than the base blown Impala. But the car outclasses and out performa Impala by such a wide and humiliating margin, comparing the Impala to it is alot like strangling puppies or clubbing baby seals, so we'll go up to the GM car that is a better comparison, the Pontiac Bonneville GXP (http://www.pontiac.com/bonneville/in...&pagename=home).

Both the "C" and the GXP have 18" wheels, a V8 engine, come pretty loaded off the bat. The 300C however has 340 hp/ 390 lbs ft of torque vs GXP's 275 & 300. You'd expect GXP to have better fuel economy as a result, but guess what? Pontiac gets 17 & 24 mpg while the C gets 17 & 25. The Bonneville like the Impala hasn't changed in half a dozen years, is Front Wheel Drive, and has an interior that reflects the bad old days of plastic interiors, despite being put together better than in the past. The C again feels made of better materials, has better attention to details, and has at least seems to have spent more time being assembled than the Bonneville that seems almost Fisher Prise-ish in assembly.

Pontiac lists the Bonneville GXP at a laughable $35,995 base price, then sticks on $5,000 rebate. Along with the $1,000 loyalty rebate if you currently own a GM car, that puts it at $29,995. You can get a 300C for that price. Even at $3,000 more, seems the 300C is still a better deal.


BUT, car purchases have nearly zip to do with price. It's more to do with having a desireable package. Camaro Z28s sold for as low as $23,000 base price before rebates, yet people chose $45,000 Corvettes and loaded $27,000+ V6 Camaro RSs instead. Why? Because that's what they wanted & prefered.

Car buying is as much an emotional experience as a practical one, even moreso. Chrysler created a car that people "gotta have", and priced it where people feel it's a steal.

Impala is a good car. I rented one last fall, and made a post here on how I though it was an underrated car. For what it was, it was a very good sedan, and I said so (shocking quite a few people in the process). However, Chrysler has created a even better package in the same price range.

Sure the Impala is overall slightly cheaper. However, people are willing to pay a few hundred more (or even a few thousand more) to get the 300 series. And there's more people willing to pay $23 large for a Chrysler 300 than there are for a $20,000 Impala... or a $25,000 Buick.

 

Missed my point.....I seriously doubt Impala buyers are cross shopping ths 300, so I think comparing the two's price is not quite rational.

Also, lets remember this car took Chrysler like 6 years to get to market and quite simply has to be a hit.

Another thing to think about is how well these cars sell compared to the past LH models....didn't they sell very briskly when they came out.

Also on another note.....what about the rest of Chryslers car line? The Sebring/Stratus is a dud.....and the Neon is a POS unless it's turbo....then its a rather fast POS. On top of that DCX does not have the market share to push these crappy cars like GM can push the crappy Cavalier and Grand Am. And both those GM cars are getting ready to be replaced with the most competent cars in their class (Cobalt and G6).

While these Hemi sedans may seem like a turn around at Chrysler, I can't help but feel I have seen this before with the PT Cruiser and the late 90's LH cars. One hot car does you no good when everything else in your showroom is crap. Also if you are gonna compare the LX cars to the Impala, you have to compare them to the Accord and Camry...and I don't see anyone doing that. Fact of the matter is, the 300 is in a new catagory that we have not seen in a long time......and only time will determine how well it does. In 1978 Ford sold well over 250,000 Mercury Cougars....5 years later the car looked dated and a caricature of it self. The way chrysler is going, the 300's product life cvycle could be more than 3 years.

Agin, I think the 300 is a great car...and I ohhh and ahhh every time I see one...but I think people need to get over the shock and awe of the LX cars and realize DCX in terms of product is in depp crap. After all weren't the next Neon and Sebring being designed with Mitsu components?

 

You have no debate from me on any of your points, but consider a few things. Chrysler has America's best selling convertible (Sebring), America's fastest pickup truck (SRT-10), America's fastest FWD compact sedan (Neon SRT-4), the best selling crossover (the PT Cruiser), America's fastest stationwagon (Magnum Hemi... regardless as to if they call it a truck or not), and currently, America's 2nd quickest accelerating sedan behind the CTSv (the 300C). Though I have roasted them in the past for starving Chrysler of product, they are finally waking up at the same time GM seems to be drifting back towards it's old sluggish habbits.

Comparing the Impala and 300 is on the surface very irrational, so I'm agreement with you there. But say there is someone comparison shopping for a roomy sedan in the low $20,000 range. They will most likely stop bt the Chrysler showroom just like they will stop at Ford & Pontiac. At Ford they will see the Taurus (the 500 will be out this summer), Pontiac will have the Grand Prix, and Buick will have the Regal (LaCrosse later this year), and Chrysler will have the 300.

It's like what happened at GM over the 0% financing. Someone goes into the showroom looking for a loaded Impala, but wind up buying a loaded Trailblazer or a modest Tahoe because it costs what they expected to pay for the Impala in the 1st place. If anyone drops into the Chrysler showroom they are likely to experience that "Reverse Sticker Shock" that more than a few people here posted, and has come up in a few news stories and posts on other sites. So although on the surface it doesn't seem likely, it's no doubt going to happen.

As for Accord & Camary, I've come to a conclusion that so many of the buyers of those cars are so brainwashed, you could discount BMWs down to $25K, and they'd still think Honda & Toyota had better quality. These people will buy Honda or Toyota no matter what.

But if anyone is shopping in a Chevy showroom, they are at least willing to look around at other US makers. If they go to Chrysler, unless they are anti-rear wheel drive, they're going to get snagged.

I know it's too late in the game for this, but Chevy needs to get something that equals the styling & interior pizazz of the CTS with Chevrolet pricing, and skip the restyled "W" body, FWD 2006 Impala.

 

It will be interesting to see how the new rear wheel drive platforms work for Chrysler, since for the past 15 years the auto industry has tryed to brain wash the public into thinking that RWD cars are dangerous and FWD is much safer. I really hope the 300C and Magnum are very sucessful. That means that once again GM will be playing catch up and staying one step behind to an ever changing market. GM needs something fresh for the mainstream market now, not the same FWD platforms reskinned. Just like what they have been doing for the past 10 years.