The WRC (World Rally Championship) is becoming an increasingly popular sport, especially among sport compact tuners (i kno the guys on celica.net love it, myself included). I would love the idea of an AWD turbo cobalt SS, however, if Chevy does get this, there would be little to no hope for the camaro. I dont think GM would have two entry level sports cars under the same branch.

While saturn does seem like a logical fit, i think Pontiac would be the best recipient of the rally bred car. Chevy has its flagship in the corvette, while pontiac now has the GTO. Chevy can then get the camaro (to begin with, im not hatin on the TA guys ) while pontiac gets the rally car.

let saturn have the FWD blown redline coup thing. if its still even feasible.....

thoughts?

-EriC

 

Pontiac has the GTO ($33,000) as their halo car and hopefully the Solstice (sub-
$25,000) as its little brother. Since no version of the Cobalt/Ion is planned for Pontiac anytime soon they could alway bring out a S/C AWD version of the Vibe to make it a pseudo rally car to fill a niche.

Chevy has the Vette ($50,000) as its halo and hopefully the Camaro will return in 2006 as a 2007 ($25,000-$40,0000) and the Cobalt (SS) will be the affordable performance in the sub-$25,000 range.


Saturn has the Ion redline as its affordable performance (sub-$25,000) but they do not have a halo performance car with performance specs near Camaro/GTO/EVO/STi territory. A WRC/rally-inspired Saturn Ion with AWD and 260-300+ HP ($30,000+) could become Saturns halo car and become the EVO/Sti of the Saturn brand.

I think GM is getting smarter by not making brands duplicate each other as much buy giving each brand a performance niche.

 

GM DOES race in the wrc.

They race under the subaru banner. Everybody seems to forget that they own 20% of them.

 

Call my crazy.... but I will go aginst the flow and say that actutally - that looks better than the EVO IMO. The front fascia is more aggressive looking and cleaner than the EVOs.

Doesn't GM own a decent sized stake in Subaru - so technically, they are already involved in the rally scene, even if people don't know it?? Anyone..??

Doh.. just saw the post above .

 

I thought the Grand Am, G6 was supposed to be the turbo awd import fighter. Now it looks like its getting the lame supercharged 3.8.

If GM wants this to compete with the WRX/EVO, they need to revamp their relationship with aftermarket tuners. The biggest enthusiast appeal to the EVO is the huge aftermarket. The mitsubishi turbo 2.0l is an old, well proven engine. There is a huge amount of knowlege and products already available for it from aftermarket shops. This is evidenced by the number of evo's already running 300+ hp with some already running 600+ hp.
Subaru actually had a bit of backlash b/c the STi came out with a new engine that had not been proven and, as it turned out, had a bit of a detonation problem that needed to be worked out.

If GM is serious about getting into the import scene, they need to turbocharg, not supercharge, the eco-tech, and they need to make it very easy to mod and make huge numbers with. As stated in one import mag, GM dominated the scene with the 350, don't think with a determined division and a big enough budget they couldn't do the same with the eco-tech. It's already gaining acceptance in the import scene, GM just needs get off their *** and start producing it.

 

here’s a bunch on new pics of the Rally Ion

interior pics

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/dat...Concept-07.jpg

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/dat...Concept-04.jpg

profile

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/dat...Concept-03.jpg

rear

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/dat...Concept-02.jpg

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/dat...Concept-06.jpg

front

http://www.urbanracer.com/gallery/ga...20-03/0008.jpg

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/dat...Concept-05.jpg

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/dat...Concept-01.jpg

engine (notice that its an Ecotec 2.2 and not the 2.0 Supercharged Ecotec thats in the upcoming 2004 200HP+ production redline.

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/dat...Concept-09.jpg

 

So this Saturn is a turbo. I like the hard pipe coming off the turbo but then it looks like they have a radiator hose going into the throttle body. I'm confused on why they went 2.2l for a concept rally car. My guess is that, as a concept, the engine didn't have a huge budget.

Now we know why the gague cluster is in the middle of the dash. That way you can a 6" tach w/shift light right in front of your face

 

I guess you're feeling like a jackass

 

There was a backlash because they put the EJ25 in it instead of the EJ20. The overseas Sti as well as the WRC spec car has the EJ20. In the minds of real subaru enthusiasts it isn't a "real" sti. The EJ25 is the impreza's base engine and makes 165 hp in naturally aspirated form. The EJ20 from the start was designed to be turbocharged while the EJ25 wasn't. This is one of the reasons they had detonation problems.

By the way, the EJ25 is a proven engine. It's just the wrong engine for a sti. They should've stayed with the EJ20.

 

If Saturn could sell an turbo charged AWD 275-300HP Ion for under $30,000 I think they would have a winner.

 

Yes, with the Evo and STI above 30K at the dealerships, GM could do well with a sub 30k rally car. I still do not think Saturn has much bussiness in the performance area. Every import guy I know laughs at the thought of a saturn performance car. Pontiac would probably be the best suited for a rally program. They do not have a big influence anymore in NASCAR. They do not have many other race programs that I am aware of. Theres a few Firebirds in the Rolex Series, and I believe a few Grand Am's or something in NHRA. A rally car would be for someone looking for a bit more than a solctice (a car with a back seat and some more power), and something below the flagship GTO. This would also fit in with the whole concept of making Pontiac the lead performance division. I would like a chevy version, but I couldn't see it happening if the Camaro returns.

 

How about a rally spec cobalt ss with a 250hp ecotec. Put awd in it and race it in the scca rally series here in america. Don't put it in the wrc, that's what subaru is for. By racing it in the scca, you can build more of a national appeal.

 

I didn't read the entire thread, so this might be a repeat:

I am confident in saying that we are looking at the basis for the production Solstice drivetrain (of course in RWD form)

Little birdies...

 

A RWD turbo, 2.2l soltice?? I think we may have a winner. Only problem I see is insurance. Isn't that what killed the old turbo MR2's?