Z28x

Not making Alpha to accommodate V8s would be as big a mistake as not allowing the Colorado to fit a I6 or V8.

Z284ever

I think the issue is, that developing it to package a V8, will change alot of things.

The next gen Mustang however, will no doubt package a V8.

Z284ever

Oh, if it only were that simple....

SFireGT98

That reason there is why I think no matter what platform the next gen Camaro resides on, GM will do whatever it takes to put a V8 in it somehow.

teal98

As in size and weight go up?

Z284ever

Yes, possibly. Those are my impressions. It's hard to get much concrete info on that, but that's what it sounds like.

My impressions also, are that this next gen Camaro, (hopefully, there is one), will be here very quickly. Quicker than some think.

teal98

If adding V8 capability makes size and weight go up, then I think it's a mistake for GM to add this to Alpha. With CAFE in the U.S. and worldwide CO2 emission limits, they have to build this car as small as possible. Worldwide, the majority would have fours, and most of the rest would have a V6. If they're making everything heavier to package protect for a V8 to please a few American enthusiasts, it's a mistake. In my opinion, of course. Now, I would likely benefit from GM's mistake

Mustang is on a bigger platform than Alpha, so that'd be a different story.

Z284ever

Supposedly, the next gen Mustang will be smaller than the current one - perhaps by quite abit.

guionM

Well, since we're going to talk about this anyway, I'm going to take the devils advocate position and bring up a very real question:

Why should the Alpha (even in Camaro guise) have a V8 engine?

Here's why I ask.

The whole original idea of the Alpha is to create a lightweight, rear drive, performance chassis that would form the basis of a sedan, coupe, and a future sports car. The way it was initially sold was as a 4 cylinder, roughly around the size of Audi's A4 (which is less than 70" wide and weighs in at about 3200 pounds).

To do this vehicle as intended and to make the chassis as light as possible, it won't be strong enough to hold a high powered V8 as in an LS3. To make it capable of handling that amount of power, it's going to need a stronger (and heavier) chassis which will make it nothing more than a smaller Zeta, and will still not likely to be any lighter than 3500 pounds.... the curb weight of the current V8 powered, aluminum chassied BMW M3 is 3500 pounds, so it's being generous to say a same sized Camaro V8 would be the same weight.

If GM is willing to forgo a Northstar V8 replacement because they have a V6 that makes more horsepower, I'm not convinced they're likely to make a smaller V8 with the DI 3.6 V6's power. Especially if that engine can potentially run 330-350 horsepower and run pretty much the same fuel economy it's running now, along with lighter weight (which is going to be extremely important to this chassis).


If GM can bring in an Alpha Camaro SS that weighs about 3200 pounds, has a 330 hp DI V6 and costs the same that the upcoming Camaro V8 does in current dollars, yet is lighter, quicker, handles far better than the 5th gen does, missing the V8 engine will be more of a mental issue than an actual physical one.

So a V8 shouldn't be a mandatory requirement in the next Camaro.

By the time it comes out mid next decade fuel will probally be at least $6, and possibly $7 or $8 per gallon in today's dollars, and so far this year 4 cylinder cars are outselling V6s for the first time in history. In a decade V6s are going to be what V8s are today, why spend the money on something that won't sell enough to recover the investment?

Don't worry, I got the flame suit on.

Z28Wilson

Because, a V8 option is a part of Camaro's DNA. Fbodfather told us so -- many times -- and I happen to agree.

91_z28_4me

I guess that is the funny thing about DNA, it evolves over time or the species it belongs to goes extinct.

Z284ever

As SFireGT98 says, if Mustang gets a V8, so does Camaro. If Mustang gets a coal fired steam turbine, so does Camaro.

Honestly, I don't know why a 3-series sized car can't package a V8, especially one as compact as a smallblock Chevy. I mean, the 3-series sized ..erm.. 3-series gets a V8. The 3-series sized C-class gets a V8. The 3-series sized A4 gets a V8. Why can't a 3-series sized Camaro get one too?

IREngineer

I agree with Guy on all points. Good post

If the Camaro is going to stick around, it is surely going to morph. I think the next gen Z28 will be still be FI, but it will run off exhaust and only push into 6 cylinders. The whole automotive word is about to change. Embrace it people, there will be just as much room (if not more!!) for the enthusiasts.

IREngineer

Point 1 - Who said the Mustang will have a V8 when it goes "small"? It it does happen (up in the air still at this point based on what I get at my level), I see the "twinboost" being the top of the line engine.

Point 2 - Are you willing to pay M3 or C63(?) money for a Z28??

teal98

Yeah, but these all weigh over 3500 pounds. The M3 is the lightest, and it has the smallest V8. It also has a lot of pricey, lightweight components.

The M3 V8 is relatively light on torque, which also reduces requirements for other components. Put a smallblock in there with 400/400, and you add weight. Bring it in at Camaro prices, and it adds weight. Pretty soon you're right back at close to 4000 pounds, or at least 3700-3800.

It's a difficult question for the GM product planners, I'm sure. What do you do when you can get far more power than you need from a V6, people (and governments) are clamoring for light and small, but some want a V8 no matter what (and they'll complain if it's expensive?).

I think you have to stick to the original alpha concept; small, light, tight packaging, and accept that no matter what you do, some people won't like it.

If Camaro has to have a V8, then leave it on the bigger-than-alpha platform, whatever that is. Or do an alpha+ platform that is like the alpha, but longer and wider and heavier, so that it can package a 400+ hp/tq V8. But if that's a projected low volume platform, it'll be $$$.

Just remember that this (Alpha) has to be reasonably optimized for a 2.0l 4 cyl diesel to do well in Europe, and a V6 to do well here. That's more important than a few boards full of "V8 or bust" Camaro fans (of which I count myself one, though I'd very likely be quite satisfied with Guy's 3200 lb V6 above).