Damn, that looks nice. Dodge has done a good job of stealing the entire 4 door, rwd, v8 market. I mean if you're looking for something that can haul a few friends, has some torque, and looks cool, what else is out there? Chrylsler 300?

 

I think the taillights look frickin' bad ***.

It's going to one sweet looking car.

 

I concur.

 

Pretty much.

 

Oh i would, The Charger gets sloppy when it comes to pushing it around curves.

 

Good to know that your opinion comes from having driven the car that isn't out of preproduction testing yet.

 

What?? The RT and SRT8 both handle great for their size. I actually owned a 2006 and had no complaints about sloppy anything.

 

Gets sloppy? That's silly. Drive a Crown Victoria, then get into a Charger. We're talking full size sedans, not a 30th anniversary, 1997, 6 speed, Camaro Z28 buddy.

To say that the Australian Holden Statesman you have never driven in your life is going to get blown off the course by another car (have you driven a Charger R/T Road & Track package???.. it's similar to the Pursuit Charger) is a pretty bold and baseless statement.

And since I've driven both the Statesman as well as the Charger Daytona), I'll tell you that only the unwitting and the unknowing will even think the Charger is going to get "blown off the course" by the upcoming Chevrolet Caprice.

To be sure, the Caprice will certainly be competitive.

But don't be dumb and confuse the Caprice (Holden Statesman) police car with a Pontiac G8 GT (Holden Commodore).

It isn't the same car.

The Statesman is longer than Holden's Commodore by 10" (203").

The Statesman is heavier than the Commodore by roughly 200 pounds (it weighs just over 4100 pounds).

The engine in the Caprice police car will have about 360 horsepower and pull about 390 lbs/ft of torque.

Meanwhile, the Dodge Charger Pursuit runs about 380 horsepower, also runs about 390 in the torque department, is about 4,000 pounds and a couple inches shorter at 200"

So you can clearly see 2 points.

1. The Statesman is no Pontiac G8, and...
2. A Charger-Caprice matchup will be a very close, and very, very, intresting matchup....

....and again....

.... if you are silly enough to bet that the Charger will be blown off the course by the Caprice......

...... I wouldn't.

I have driven examples of all LX based cars, and I would by no means whatsoever call any that I've driven "sloppy" by a long shot, including my gf's Magnum. That's why when someone makes statements like that, you gotta take it with a grain of salt (if that) because you know they haven't driven one....... or the other.

Best to lay out the facts, and wait.

 

My comparisons was with the current Charger, since the "new" Charger Pursuit isn't out yet, I have no idea how the new Charger will handle.
I drive a Crown Vic (Police Interceptor) for 8 hour a day. I've also spent a lot of time in the Charger, Impala 9C1, and even the old B-Body Caprice 9C1 from the 90s. So I'd say I know a little on how sedans handle.

The current Charger when pushed to the limit gets sloppy in the handling dept. Look at some of the comparo videos on YouTube that pit the Charger against the Pontiac G8. I don't think there will be a dramatic difference between the Caprice and the G8. That is why GM outfitted some G8s in LAPD gear for them to demo. Sure the longer wheelbase Caprice isn't going handle or run as fast as the G8, but the difference will not be extreme.

We will find out next month during the MSP vehicle tests. I am not sure if the new Charger will be there. If they bring the current Charger, the Caprice should be able to the road course tests by serveral car links.

 

Are you going to be there? If so take lots of pics of the Charger getting blown off the course.

 

Again, I want to emphasize what I said in my previous post...

....the Statesman IS NOT the Pontiac G8.

Yes, It's also a Zeta, however, it is a different Zeta that weighs about 200 pounds more..... you shouldn't ignore that part.


The YouTube videos compare the G8 GT or GXP with the Charger R/T or SRT8. There isn't a Statesman vs Charger video yet. Again, ignore that the Caprice isn't a G8 at your peril.

And yes, the regular R/T will pretty much wipe the floor with a Crown Victoria... even with all the traction and handling interference from it's indefeatable stability control. My understanding is that the Police Chargers have a slightly different, less restrictive setting, which gets less electronic interference. I imagine that would be enough to make the police Charger go from simply wiping the floor with a Crown Vic to giving that floor a full fledged, military spit-and-shine polishing with the thing.

The ONLY issue with Charger's (and early 300s) handling has been that there is a tendancy when they get worn, the bushings that separate the rear subframe from the body tend to turn to jello and rear subframe tends to make the car feel loose. Only THEN does the Charger's handling tends to get sloppy. Although this issue has been fixed in newer LX cars, the fix in older ones is just as simple: more durable bushings.

Pretty minor issue next to Crown Vics that tended to explode when rear ended due to Ford changing the type of differential bolt.

The Pontiac G8 GT is a great handling car. It has good feel, and because the Charger has a higher beltline, as is the case with the Camaro when you drive it after driving a Mustang (or 4th gen) it can feel a bit large or even awkward till you get used to it.

The Holden Statesman that we're going to get rebadge as a Caprice police vehicle isn't what Holden typically markets in Australia and the Middle East as a police vehicle (they focus on the Commodore for that).

As such, we are getting a vehicle that's close to a foot longer with 200 additional pounds hanging out back and is going to have a suspension that's going to ride a bit softer than the G8 GT.

The final (and real) test will be when MSP flog both cars.

I'm expecting it to be close, with the Dodge edging out the Caprice in performance and handling, but the Caprice edging out the Dodge in interior room and luggage capacity.

Again, if you bet that the Charger is going to be blown off the track... especially if you're basing that notion without taking the full range of points into consideration...

....I wouldn't.

 

I've had Charger RTs and 300Cs as demos. They are not sloppy. At all. They are not light and lithe, but sloppy does not come to mind. I remember driving a Grand Prix GXP and Charger RT back-to-back, and thinking how awesome handling the GXP was.

But a lot of good handling cars take a back seat to a Grand Prix GXP...which is so impressive, its amazing to think it started life as a W body.

 

We don't know how a Caprice-based 9C1 will handle. I doubt it will use the same suspension tuning as the more luxury-oriented / ride-focused version that is sold commercially in other markets.

 

Don't get me wrong the LX cars are great road cars, and even good sports sedans with the SRT-8 line. I doubt many of you have been on a road course with one pushing it to the limits when things get interesting. No doubt the Charger will wipe the floor with the Crown Vic. But the Charger has weakness on a tight road course. With braking from 60 mph in the 130+ ft. range, and only able to pull a .079g on a skidpad, there is room for improvement.

I don't think 200 lbs. is going make dramatic difference in the way the Caprice handles over the G8. With the longer wheelbase it might be a more balanced car. You said the Caprice going to be tuned softer than the G8, I hope that is not the case, but I haven't heard otherwise. 9C1s get specially tuned suspension pieces such as special shocks, springs, bushings, etc. It's going to come down to how much time GM has spent tuning the Caprice for police duty.
With the B-body Caprice in the 90s it got better suspension than the retail Impala SS with special Bilstein shocks. So the Caprice 9C1 has a legendary status to uphold.

 

Even if the Caprice has the same spring rates, shocks and busings, the longer wheelbase and the extra weight will almost certainly give the car different handling dynamics from the G8 GT. Imagine how different a handling car the Camaro or Mustang would be with an extra 200 pounds and 10" of length. Even if the Caprice isn't softer in tune than the G8 GT, it's not likely going to match it in a handling course.

That's why it's probably not a good bet to say that the Charger is going to lose terribly to the Caprice. Personally, I think it's going to be a good competition. I will give the edge to Charger in the handling department, but again, the Caprice will have more space and will feel a bit better because of it's lower belt line.

The one thing that can not be ignored in all of this is that law enforcement vehicle purchasers prefers familiarity, value, and availibility of replacements parts.

With the Crown Victoria going away, and the Dodge Chaerger being the only game in town, it's going to critical mass in replacing the Crown Vic, picking up just about every organization that is trading in CVs. That's lost momemtum that GM is missing, plus until GM makes the Caprice available to the general public (increasing the volume...and parts... of cars available), it's likely maintence on the Caprice will be a little more (see: parts availbility and cost on GTOs and G8s).