2010 Taurus SHO: Twinturbo 365hp AWD
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
Back on topic. I truly like this new Taurus, and the SHO might make me reconsider my "no buy" stance on Ford. However I'm still a bowtie and Camaro guy to the bone, so that will be difficult. (Not to mention my bad experiences with Ford dealers in the past.)
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,650
From: Indianapolis, IN
Can someone track the price of cars vs. inflation and wages? I think they have always been pretty expensive compared to a year's salary. I agree they are damn expensive, which is why I buy used, but I don't know that they are getting more expensive compared to other staples. I could be wrong though, certainly.
Besides, when loaded Tahoes, Expeditions, Land Cruisers, and so forth, from non-lux brands, easily approach or exceed $50k... as do big crew cab pickups...
That always struck me as completely insane.
$38k is a lot, but to my cheap ***, $30k is an insane amount of money to spend on a car. Plus, $38k = buy for $33k or so.
Besides, when loaded Tahoes, Expeditions, Land Cruisers, and so forth, from non-lux brands, easily approach or exceed $50k... as do big crew cab pickups...
That always struck me as completely insane.
$38k is a lot, but to my cheap ***, $30k is an insane amount of money to spend on a car. Plus, $38k = buy for $33k or so.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
You are preaching to the choir.
You don't have to sell or convince me of what the car was or what it has become.
But I think even you are missing my point now...
In 1989, you did not have Mercedes-Bens C-class 2.3's starting at $20k (roughly 20% LESS than the SHO as it is TODAY - by that I mean that today's C starts at about $30K compared to the $38K SHO).
You also did not have the BMW 3-series starting at $11k (again roughly 20% less than this SHO offering TODAY).
There are LOTS of BMW's, Mercedes, Volvos, and other "luxury"-oriented players on the lots today at VERY competitive prices, far more that there were 20 years ago. POINT = the game has changed.
Ford was competitive against those foreign marques with other vehicles, and was playing the game of the day - at that time. Town cars, Continentals, LSCs, and a slew of other names were competitive in the high-end... today, not the same. In addition, Mercedes and BMW have done a great job of making smaller, coompact, luxury cars with I-4, I-5, and V6 power that are aimed dead-at the GM, Ford, and Chrysler mainstream markets... the middle-class families that "want to ride in a Bimmer" but couldn't affor a 5-series or 7-series.
I am complaining about this SHO just like I am complaining about the Mustang, and most of the others coming out recently... they cost too d@mn-much IMO.
Trying to place them "relative" to other offerings is only good for a point of reference, but does not "justify" the price.
You can stand 3-feet east of me, and we are close together, right?
NOT if I am on the 75th floor of a building and you are on the ground floor.
Relativity is just that... relative.
FORD is not a luxury name in the USA. Lincoln is. Mercury is to a point.
Ford = raw value, some features
Mercury = some value with some nice upgrades
Lincoln = Luxury
Marketing a $40k family car as a Ford (I don't care if it has 450hp or 950hp... it still has "Taurus" on it's fenders) just doesn't fit. Neither does a $40k Mustang, but that's another thread. And if you ask me, neither does a $30K base Taurus.
IMO, cars are becoming too expensive across the board - we've had these discussions before on this forum, and I have shown the rediculous margins that are available in these vehicles. I've also shown the pricing strategies that they use - with 2 identical vehicles costing as much as $10k difference between sales districts simply because they are priced to what the market/region will bear. I don't give a doo-doo about inflation, deflation, reflation, adjusted this and that... poop on it all. What I know now is that I can spend $20k on a base V6 Mustang stripper car or I can buy a house out of foreclosure for the same. When Hyundai is offering a 4-door sedan starting at $8988 but Ford and GM can't offer me anything under $12k, something's not right. At the bottom of the worst automotive recession in 19 years, and the 2nd worst automotive recession EVER, and with the 3 domestics all within earshot of bankruptcy, I'm thinking now is probably not the time to start trying to upscale everything you offer. Lot's of good it does me to ask for $40k on this car, only to turn around and have to offer you $6k cash-back, 0% financing, and a free vacation at the beach to get you to come look at it/buy it?!?!
Look, I am 100% advocating that Ford has some great product(s) out right now and coming too - NO DOUBT. I don't dislike the SHO, or what it is. In fact I love the cars - I can site the Yamaha numbers to you, and I have seat time in 2 of them myself. I am also not arguing that the vehicle isn't worth the $38-$42K they are asking for it. WHAT I AM SAYING is that most people fortunate enough to have a job that will allow them to buy a $40k family car, and are actually shopping in the $40k category, are probably NOT looking for it on a Ford dealer's lot. They are setting themselves up for another situation like the SVO Mustang, the Merkur, the LS, the last T-bird, and others in which the target buyer/market for such a vehicle is not where they are putting the vehicle... that's my opinion.
If they have a business model that only needs to sell 5-10k units - GREAT! Shame they couldn't sell 20K and slam the profit margin through the roof.
Likewise, if they have some kind of advertising plan to get the word out to potential buyers of $40k cars - GREAT!
That advertising money comes from somewhere - it better return itself and more.
I guess I'm just the old curmudgeon, and I don't want to hijack this thread and turn it into a car-price discussion. I simply let my thoughts/opinion be known about the price-point of this particular vehicle. If you want to discuss why cars are overpriced (again), let's dig up the old thread and rehash it separately. Otherwise, I've said my peace... let's sit back and see what happens.
I'm not going anywhere.
You don't have to sell or convince me of what the car was or what it has become.
But I think even you are missing my point now...
In 1989, you did not have Mercedes-Bens C-class 2.3's starting at $20k (roughly 20% LESS than the SHO as it is TODAY - by that I mean that today's C starts at about $30K compared to the $38K SHO).
You also did not have the BMW 3-series starting at $11k (again roughly 20% less than this SHO offering TODAY).
There are LOTS of BMW's, Mercedes, Volvos, and other "luxury"-oriented players on the lots today at VERY competitive prices, far more that there were 20 years ago. POINT = the game has changed.
Ford was competitive against those foreign marques with other vehicles, and was playing the game of the day - at that time. Town cars, Continentals, LSCs, and a slew of other names were competitive in the high-end... today, not the same. In addition, Mercedes and BMW have done a great job of making smaller, coompact, luxury cars with I-4, I-5, and V6 power that are aimed dead-at the GM, Ford, and Chrysler mainstream markets... the middle-class families that "want to ride in a Bimmer" but couldn't affor a 5-series or 7-series.
I am complaining about this SHO just like I am complaining about the Mustang, and most of the others coming out recently... they cost too d@mn-much IMO.
Trying to place them "relative" to other offerings is only good for a point of reference, but does not "justify" the price.
You can stand 3-feet east of me, and we are close together, right?
NOT if I am on the 75th floor of a building and you are on the ground floor.
Relativity is just that... relative.
FORD is not a luxury name in the USA. Lincoln is. Mercury is to a point.
Ford = raw value, some features
Mercury = some value with some nice upgrades
Lincoln = Luxury
Marketing a $40k family car as a Ford (I don't care if it has 450hp or 950hp... it still has "Taurus" on it's fenders) just doesn't fit. Neither does a $40k Mustang, but that's another thread. And if you ask me, neither does a $30K base Taurus.
IMO, cars are becoming too expensive across the board - we've had these discussions before on this forum, and I have shown the rediculous margins that are available in these vehicles. I've also shown the pricing strategies that they use - with 2 identical vehicles costing as much as $10k difference between sales districts simply because they are priced to what the market/region will bear. I don't give a doo-doo about inflation, deflation, reflation, adjusted this and that... poop on it all. What I know now is that I can spend $20k on a base V6 Mustang stripper car or I can buy a house out of foreclosure for the same. When Hyundai is offering a 4-door sedan starting at $8988 but Ford and GM can't offer me anything under $12k, something's not right. At the bottom of the worst automotive recession in 19 years, and the 2nd worst automotive recession EVER, and with the 3 domestics all within earshot of bankruptcy, I'm thinking now is probably not the time to start trying to upscale everything you offer. Lot's of good it does me to ask for $40k on this car, only to turn around and have to offer you $6k cash-back, 0% financing, and a free vacation at the beach to get you to come look at it/buy it?!?!
Look, I am 100% advocating that Ford has some great product(s) out right now and coming too - NO DOUBT. I don't dislike the SHO, or what it is. In fact I love the cars - I can site the Yamaha numbers to you, and I have seat time in 2 of them myself. I am also not arguing that the vehicle isn't worth the $38-$42K they are asking for it. WHAT I AM SAYING is that most people fortunate enough to have a job that will allow them to buy a $40k family car, and are actually shopping in the $40k category, are probably NOT looking for it on a Ford dealer's lot. They are setting themselves up for another situation like the SVO Mustang, the Merkur, the LS, the last T-bird, and others in which the target buyer/market for such a vehicle is not where they are putting the vehicle... that's my opinion.
If they have a business model that only needs to sell 5-10k units - GREAT! Shame they couldn't sell 20K and slam the profit margin through the roof.
Likewise, if they have some kind of advertising plan to get the word out to potential buyers of $40k cars - GREAT!
That advertising money comes from somewhere - it better return itself and more.
I guess I'm just the old curmudgeon, and I don't want to hijack this thread and turn it into a car-price discussion. I simply let my thoughts/opinion be known about the price-point of this particular vehicle. If you want to discuss why cars are overpriced (again), let's dig up the old thread and rehash it separately. Otherwise, I've said my peace... let's sit back and see what happens.
I'm not going anywhere.
To be honest, after having Thunderbird SCs and having friends in my military days who had SHOs, the consensus is that we're glad there were very few of these cars, and that you can actually tell there was money attached to these things.
I fully understand your position, and to a large degree, I agree with it. But 38 grand seems like a fair price for this twin turbo, AWD, fully stocked 4 door full sized, Q-ship, even with a Ford badge.
But going to the root of the issue you bring up, when you can finance cars over 6 years instead of the 36-48 months you were once limited to, that gives the opportunity to jack up prices without affecting monthly payments. In short, we wouldn't really notice.
Last edited by guionM; Feb 12, 2009 at 02:41 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Can someone track the price of cars vs. inflation and wages? I think they have always been pretty expensive compared to a year's salary. I agree they are damn expensive, which is why I buy used, but I don't know that they are getting more expensive compared to other staples. I could be wrong though, certainly.
Besides, when loaded Tahoes, Expeditions, Land Cruisers, and so forth, from non-lux brands, easily approach or exceed $50k... as do big crew cab pickups...
That always struck me as completely insane.
$38k is a lot, but to my cheap ***, $30k is an insane amount of money to spend on a car. Plus, $38k = buy for $33k or so.
Besides, when loaded Tahoes, Expeditions, Land Cruisers, and so forth, from non-lux brands, easily approach or exceed $50k... as do big crew cab pickups...
That always struck me as completely insane.
$38k is a lot, but to my cheap ***, $30k is an insane amount of money to spend on a car. Plus, $38k = buy for $33k or so.
New car prices have stayed flat against inflation for most of this decade. Mustang GTs cost about 23K when Camaro left the stage for the 2003 model year. They just only recently reached $28K.
Last edited by guionM; Feb 16, 2009 at 10:11 AM.
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,870
Another thing to consider about the SHO. Look at some of its closest competitors and the msrp isn't so shocking....
*Avalon - top of the line Limited model starts at 35k and can pass 40k with options and that's without the added expense of AWD or twin-turbo v6.
*Buick - The Lucerne super starts at 40k and that's with 292hp, Fwd, and a 4spd auto.The 300hp Lacross super is $34k+ and is also Fwd and 4spd auto.
*Nissan - the Maxima SV with the sports package starts at $35k and can cost 38+k when optioned with the tech package. And you get Fwd and 290hp v6.
* Chrysler - 300C AWD starts at 39k and go upto 45k loaded. 360hp, AWD, and 5spd auto.
* VW - 4motion Vr6 passat starts at around 38k and is a much smaller car than the SHO.
So for a near-luxury full sized sports sedan, it represents a pretty good value considering what you get. Yes you can get a base 4matic C300 for under 38k but you'll have to be satisfied with 228hp in a smaller car and the germans are known for charging a leg and arm for options so who knows what a comparably equipped C-class costs.
At the same time, i see proudpony's point on how expensive cars have gotten. Times have changed and the cars themselves have changed. More tech and features = more expensive cars. No one really makes base cars anymore. Todays base cars would be considered loaded by 90's standards.
*Avalon - top of the line Limited model starts at 35k and can pass 40k with options and that's without the added expense of AWD or twin-turbo v6.
*Buick - The Lucerne super starts at 40k and that's with 292hp, Fwd, and a 4spd auto.The 300hp Lacross super is $34k+ and is also Fwd and 4spd auto.
*Nissan - the Maxima SV with the sports package starts at $35k and can cost 38+k when optioned with the tech package. And you get Fwd and 290hp v6.
* Chrysler - 300C AWD starts at 39k and go upto 45k loaded. 360hp, AWD, and 5spd auto.
* VW - 4motion Vr6 passat starts at around 38k and is a much smaller car than the SHO.
So for a near-luxury full sized sports sedan, it represents a pretty good value considering what you get. Yes you can get a base 4matic C300 for under 38k but you'll have to be satisfied with 228hp in a smaller car and the germans are known for charging a leg and arm for options so who knows what a comparably equipped C-class costs.
At the same time, i see proudpony's point on how expensive cars have gotten. Times have changed and the cars themselves have changed. More tech and features = more expensive cars. No one really makes base cars anymore. Todays base cars would be considered loaded by 90's standards.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,817
From: O-Town
Another thing to consider about the SHO. Look at some of its closest competitors and the msrp isn't so shocking....
*Avalon - top of the line Limited model starts at 35k and can pass 40k with options and that's without the added expense of AWD or twin-turbo v6.
*Buick - The Lucerne super starts at 40k and that's with 292hp, Fwd, and a 4spd auto.The 300hp Lacross super is $34k+ and is also Fwd and 4spd auto.
*Nissan - the Maxima SV with the sports package starts at $35k and can cost 38+k when optioned with the tech package. And you get Fwd and 290hp v6.
* Chrysler - 300C AWD starts at 39k and go upto 45k loaded. 360hp, AWD, and 5spd auto.
* VW - 4motion Vr6 passat starts at around 38k and is a much smaller car than the SHO.
*Avalon - top of the line Limited model starts at 35k and can pass 40k with options and that's without the added expense of AWD or twin-turbo v6.
*Buick - The Lucerne super starts at 40k and that's with 292hp, Fwd, and a 4spd auto.The 300hp Lacross super is $34k+ and is also Fwd and 4spd auto.
*Nissan - the Maxima SV with the sports package starts at $35k and can cost 38+k when optioned with the tech package. And you get Fwd and 290hp v6.
* Chrysler - 300C AWD starts at 39k and go upto 45k loaded. 360hp, AWD, and 5spd auto.
* VW - 4motion Vr6 passat starts at around 38k and is a much smaller car than the SHO.
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,650
From: Indianapolis, IN
Another thing to consider about the SHO. Look at some of its closest competitors and the msrp isn't so shocking....
*Avalon - top of the line Limited model starts at 35k and can pass 40k with options and that's without the added expense of AWD or twin-turbo v6.
*Buick - The Lucerne super starts at 40k and that's with 292hp, Fwd, and a 4spd auto.The 300hp Lacross super is $34k+ and is also Fwd and 4spd auto.
*Nissan - the Maxima SV with the sports package starts at $35k and can cost 38+k when optioned with the tech package. And you get Fwd and 290hp v6.
* Chrysler - 300C AWD starts at 39k and go upto 45k loaded. 360hp, AWD, and 5spd auto.
* VW - 4motion Vr6 passat starts at around 38k and is a much smaller car than the SHO.
So for a near-luxury full sized sports sedan, it represents a pretty good value considering what you get. Yes you can get a base 4matic C300 for under 38k but you'll have to be satisfied with 228hp in a smaller car and the germans are known for charging a leg and arm for options so who knows what a comparably equipped C-class costs.
*Avalon - top of the line Limited model starts at 35k and can pass 40k with options and that's without the added expense of AWD or twin-turbo v6.
*Buick - The Lucerne super starts at 40k and that's with 292hp, Fwd, and a 4spd auto.The 300hp Lacross super is $34k+ and is also Fwd and 4spd auto.
*Nissan - the Maxima SV with the sports package starts at $35k and can cost 38+k when optioned with the tech package. And you get Fwd and 290hp v6.
* Chrysler - 300C AWD starts at 39k and go upto 45k loaded. 360hp, AWD, and 5spd auto.
* VW - 4motion Vr6 passat starts at around 38k and is a much smaller car than the SHO.
So for a near-luxury full sized sports sedan, it represents a pretty good value considering what you get. Yes you can get a base 4matic C300 for under 38k but you'll have to be satisfied with 228hp in a smaller car and the germans are known for charging a leg and arm for options so who knows what a comparably equipped C-class costs.
Like I said, I'm a cheap *** and all of those are crazy expensive to me (at MSRP at least). But the SHO isn't out of line compared to the competition. I'd rock one over any vehicle you listed there, easily (but not over the G8 GXP).
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From: Melbourne, Australia
I'm no different to your good self. I'm also a cheap *** and usually buy the base model of whatever it is I'm after. Then I begin to realize I should have stretched the budget a little farther and opted for the better mousetrap with better engine, brakes and suspension etc... it would have cost me around the same given my petulance for converting the base model into a 'heavy hitter'... but without the admiration one assigns to a 'halo' car.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,371
From: Kilgore TX 75662
the SHO looks like good competition to the SRT8 LX cars. It is a few grand cheaper, 60hp short, but it also adds AWD and the potential fuel economy of a V6. It would definitely be an easier car to live with every day, especially if you live where that weird white stuff falls when it gets cold outside 
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,180
From: Yadkinville, NC USA
Too many posts to copy them all in a reply, so here goes ONE MORE TIME...
I DO NOT THINK THE PRICE IS UNFAIR FOR WHAT IS THERE.
I DO THINK THIS IS TOO EXPENSIVE TO BE A FORD.
I DO THINK IT SHOULD BE OFFERED ON THE LINCOLN/MERCURY LOT WITH ANOTHER BADGE ON THE FENDER.
IT IS A GREAT CAR.
IT IS COMPARABLY PRICED TO COMPETITION.
Just because other companies have an identity crisis, does not mean Ford needs to screw theirs up too. Is Pontiac = performance or not? Is Mercedes into performance luxury or inexpensive transportation for the masses? Is BMW exclusive, or cheap and common? If Toyota is the common-mans car and Lexus is the luxury/performance division, does this Taurus compete against an Avalon or a LS460?
PLEASE GUYS... understand what I am trying to get across here... there are 2 separate points.
1) This car is breeching traditional Ford territory with it's price point. It's a great car but is in the Mercury/Lincoln pricing brackets of Ford Motor Co offerings.
2) I think all cars are getting too expensive - especially base units.
One last thing to consider... does the aspiring executive that has a good job but has not made the big time yet want to be seen driving up in a Taurus, a BMW, or a Mercedes at the Country Club the first time he is asked to play with the big boys at the office? Does "image" come into play in this selection?
Considering the travel that many do, there's not many folks who have not been stuck into a rental Taurus in the last couple of years that wouldn't think that you just bought a rental release car at an auction. My point is, there is still some image repair that the Taurus needs in the world. This car will be a great step in fixing that image - no doubt, but we have to get there first.
I DO NOT THINK THE PRICE IS UNFAIR FOR WHAT IS THERE.
I DO THINK THIS IS TOO EXPENSIVE TO BE A FORD.
I DO THINK IT SHOULD BE OFFERED ON THE LINCOLN/MERCURY LOT WITH ANOTHER BADGE ON THE FENDER.
IT IS A GREAT CAR.
IT IS COMPARABLY PRICED TO COMPETITION.
Just because other companies have an identity crisis, does not mean Ford needs to screw theirs up too. Is Pontiac = performance or not? Is Mercedes into performance luxury or inexpensive transportation for the masses? Is BMW exclusive, or cheap and common? If Toyota is the common-mans car and Lexus is the luxury/performance division, does this Taurus compete against an Avalon or a LS460?
PLEASE GUYS... understand what I am trying to get across here... there are 2 separate points.
1) This car is breeching traditional Ford territory with it's price point. It's a great car but is in the Mercury/Lincoln pricing brackets of Ford Motor Co offerings.
2) I think all cars are getting too expensive - especially base units.
One last thing to consider... does the aspiring executive that has a good job but has not made the big time yet want to be seen driving up in a Taurus, a BMW, or a Mercedes at the Country Club the first time he is asked to play with the big boys at the office? Does "image" come into play in this selection?
Considering the travel that many do, there's not many folks who have not been stuck into a rental Taurus in the last couple of years that wouldn't think that you just bought a rental release car at an auction. My point is, there is still some image repair that the Taurus needs in the world. This car will be a great step in fixing that image - no doubt, but we have to get there first.
