It's funny how things turn out Guy. Many of the most vocal commentators on weight in this regard, have left the site, been warned/disciplined, banned or just plain don't post on it anymore.

And here we are, even with those on the other side of this issue, discussing the same thing. And of course we would be. Because anyway you slice it up, Camaro's direct and primary competitor carries a 300 pound weight advantage - model for model.

I see where teal is trying to go with this, comparing the base V6 Camaro with the Mustang GT. Mustang still holds a huge mass advantage, even when using this comparison, plus more power and torque.

Getting back to Mustang's powertrains. Ford could have very easily replaced the 2010's powertrains with a Duratec 3.5/3.7 for the base model and the new 5.0L for the GT. But Mustang's marketers feel that that the current powertrains, when coupled with Mustang's traditional sales success, lower price and cosmetic freshening are enough to compete with Camaro in 2010. Thereby reserving the new powertrains for a second wave of buyers in 2011. Considering that Ford has made very few mistakes in positioning the Mustang over the past couple of decades - I wouldn't dismiss their strategy so easily.


Oh, and a side note. Anyone who's been following the 5th gen's development can tell you that the decision was made several years ago, that the GDI 3.6 would take the place of the mid-level V8, (ie, 5.3L). At some point after that, it was decided to drop the "base" V6 and go with the GDI 3.6 as base.
You can draw you own conclusions on why that was done.

 

I thought we were talking V6 vs. V6? I was anyway, and I will stick to my guns on that one. The advantages of the HF3.6 vs. the 4.0 Ford boat anchor are going to stretch beyond just peak horsepower. This engine was panned by the automotive press over 10 years ago when it merely served as a work-truck engine in the Ranger. When compared to Caddy's world class V6 it's going to take a lot more than a couple hundred pounds of extra weight to even things out. When the 3.5 goes in the Mustang next year it's a different story, same for the 5.0 in the GT.

As for the Camaro V6 vs. the 315-hp GT, then I agree 100%. People who think their V6 Camaros are going to hang with new GT's (or even 05-09 models for that matter) are in for a rude awakening.

Economic conditions will keep me from getting behind the wheel of the new Camaro right away as I had originally planned. It may work out for the best, as the 5.0 will probably be rolled out by the time I am ready to purchase. If so I will definately be giving both cars a shot before buying. The Mustang restyle has eliminated many of the problems I had with the car, although they look to have completely botched the rear end.

 

These guys also use all the basic hot-rodding tricks to wring every last tenth out of a car, not to mention god's own driver behind the wheel. I'm looking forward to seeing how deep in the 12's this crew can get in a new SS.

 

Sooooooo..It's a bad thing to wring every last tenth out of a car?

 

At least to my knowledge most of the fastest times for stock cars happen by random owners usually associated with a internet car forum. It happened that way for the LT1, LS1, 2v, 3v, 4v Mustangs too. Even though Evan Smith is a damn good driver I feel other people will fare much better.


Now:
In a company viewpoint why make drastic changes quickly when the majority of people will not care. Sure we car enthusiasts love to be the king of the road and the man but Ford most likely was privy to this economic downturn far earlier than you or I. Why invest money in a project that really will not have a drastic implication concerning sales. I say smart move and that is why Ford will kill GM this time not just Mustang killing Camaro.

 

Usually you would be correct but reading the article they ran these times despite of the all-weather BF-Goodrich G-Force tires which lose traction too easily. Link to article:

http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...d_testing.html

 

Where exactly did I say that? I didn't.

 

Sorry to sound defensive,i'm on a Camaro website,i assumed the worstIt actually seems like you can have a Mustang thread on this website that isn't hateful,unlike other websites.."cough" Camaro5.com "cough"

 

I was just replying with actual weight data in the context of V6 Camaro versus V8 Mustang.

 

I haven't done a study, but I would have said that I still seem them -- at least the vocal ones I recall replying to. You're still here


I'd really like to see how much an IRS Mustang would weigh and cost.

I see 3400 pound IRS V6 coupes (4 seaters) with 270-280 lb ft of torque out there. But every car with an engine in the neighborhood of 400 ft lbs weighs from pretty close to the Camaro to somewhat more.

The other thing I wonder about is how much less Camaro might weigh if they could charge another $5000 (keeping volume the same). From what I read, the 370Z is not lighter than the 350Z due to a lighter platform, but due to aluminum body parts and extensive attention to lighter weight components.

In any case, the Mustang's weight and price points are both helped by the solid axle. I know that wasn't an option for Camaro, coming as it did from Zeta.

 

Certainly not 300 pounds and $2,000 more.

 

I would agree. Now add in a 400hp engine. The engine is heavier, most likely. Other parts need to be stronger.

You might be close to 300 by the time you're done.

We'll see how much weight the 5.0 engine adds to the Mustang in 2011. BTW, can we take the 5.0 32V to the bank, or should I be considering it just a rumor?

 

I don't believe anyone has beat Evan Smiths time in the GT500 (12.2x I think it is). Shoot, did anyone beat his stock 4th Gen time?

________________________________________

And Guy, you really read way too much into my statement about weight. If you look at my signature you will see I do HPDE events and have a very light 4th Gen for just that reason. I should have been more specific in my statement that I was talking about the Mustang GT vs. Camaro SS discussions that have been going around.Over 100hp and almost 100tq is easily going to overcome 300 pounds in a straight line. When it comes to the track, we have seen the Camaro SS posted a better time on the Ring than the previous M3 for example so we will have to see how it does against the Mustang (no Ring times to compare). If you remember correctly, the M3 was the Mustang target and I do not believe they were able to surpass the M3, so I think the nod goes to the Camaro. We will see.

 

That won't add 300 pounds.

You know, the Camaro weighs what it does because it is a large, hefty car. Let's just come out and say it. As an example, one of the specs for the Camaro are a 729 mm wheel/tire combo. The car's bulk requires a large wheel/tire diameter in order to give it visual balance. The price? 160 additional pounds.

Certainly far more than a rumor. But I wouldn't even take to the bank that we'll have a Big 3 in 2011.

 

Well, even the Mustang has optional 19" wheels now. This is the trend, the "in thing" and both Ford and GM know this.

I have been saying all along that I expect the 2011 GT with a 400hp 5.0L 4v and 6-speed transmission to weigh between 3600 and 3650 pounds with the live axle. Time will tell.

Now, if you added an IRS to that, you would be getting close to 3800 pounds. If the Mustang gets 20" wheels/tires in the future and larger brakes to go with them then voila we have a Camaro SS.

I hope I don't come off as happy with Camaro's weight because I certainly am not. Honestly, I will not be upgrading from my current car largely because of this reason. I have roughly the same power-to-weight ratio as the new car while weighing 500 pounds less!!!