http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M3

Is this the best we could hope for from a alpha based 6th gen Camaro? IRS, lots of airbags and 6 speed+ transmissions are not going away. BMW M3 is also 54.2 in tall, yet is is shorter than the Camaro and narrower giving it a taller look based on proportions.

How much weight can realistically be lost by going to Alpha and without making Camaro a 2 seater? and without ditching the V8? We don't need 550HP/550tq, but I think any Camaro would need to be engineered to handle at least 450HP.

 

ONLY THE CAMARO CAN'T WEIGH THAT MUCH!

 

Barring a huge shift in consumer preference..large cars are here to stay. You forget..most people are coming from huge SUV's...so even a new Taurus, or Impala is much smaller.

 

And again I'm smiling internally at the constant sniping and complaining that the auto media lobbed at the 4th gens. Yeah, they were bigger and heavier (and way, WAY faster) than the Prelude, GTI, etc. But at 3400-3600 lbs, they were pretty svelte compared to the cars of today...

 

Surprisingly, the larger more powerful and auto-only C63 comes in at 3,640lbs. I always thought the benz would be heavier.

 

I can only assume that the M3 comes with features that "apparently" most Camaro buyers aren't interested in, such as a real Nav system for starters. I'm sure there is more.

 

Yeah, the BMW price tag.

 

Bingo. They could have saved more weight and upped the price tag. Which would you prefer?

 

I simply wouldn't prefer it, period.

 

Cars actually tested and weighed by the media are more like 3900 pounds. So I'm not sure I believe the 3640 number.

 

Not much. This is hardly a new subject, as the M3 & friends have been brought up many times before. Anyone thinking the Alpha is the key to a 3500 pound IRS small block is very likely to be disappointed to the tune of at least 150 pounds. I think 3700 is a realistic guess for a theoretical 2018 Alpha V8 Camaro. If that's too heavy, how's 1680kg sound?

 

Again, there's no free rides.

If one wants a lightweight, 3300-3500 pound RWD, then you HAVE to make a list of what you're going to give up.

Since cuttiung out safety, convinence, and comfort items are simply unrealistic and off the table, and anything that's going to shoot component and manufacturing costs upward, and/or decrease profit margins, that's also a non starter.


As you know I've never bought into the issue that the new Camaro is too heavy. In fact, I have occasionally given GM's engineers props for actually getting the car in at the weight it is.

It's a 500 plus horsepower & 500 plus torque capable chassis.
It's IRS is robust enough not to self destruct with multiple brutal launches with said power.
It can take a hit from another vehicle... or small truck.

Plus there isn't any other V8 powered IRS car that's 500 hp capable that weighs much less.

The Camaro isn't that much bigger than a Mustang, so issues about it's size isn't supported by the highly successful competition.

The BMW M3 has extensive & expensive alumunum construction to save weight, and it weighs 3700 pounds.

But there is one glaring issue with that BMW's weight that no one has noticed.... and I mean no one.

That 3700+ pound BMW M3 is roughly the same size as a Chevrolet Cobalt!!

For the record, Cobalt SS weighs just under 3000 pounds.

 

Aside from the Corvette of course

Anything else is in a *much* higher pricetag.

 

I think he should have also thrown in the words "with a back seat"

It just makes you realize how amazing the Z06 is when you see the weight of all these new cars (Challenger, Camaro SS, Nissan GT-R, BMW M3)

 

You're right. Some even tested it at 4,000+lbs. But for only having 32 horses more than the SS and being 3,900+lbs, it's ridiculously fast (0-60 in 3.9, 1/4 mile in 12.3@116, C&D).

On the other hand, C&D lists the M3 sedans weight at 3,571lbs and R&T lists it at 3,585lbs which is lighter than the 3,704lb figures we've seen mentioned.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/d...comp_chart.pdf
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/..._test/(page)/1