stevil

WTF!?!

You guys are comparing the GTO to a Cavalier now?!? You think they look the same??? I'm gonna shoot myself!!!

*aims gun at head*

Dear god, would you mix up my car in a parking lot with a Sunfire?

*pulls trigger*

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FormulaV8.com · 1994 Formula · A4 · 3.23
13.45 @ 102.5 MPH w/ 1.9 60' | 267 rwhp | 307 tq/lbs | 3535 lbs
"I know for a fact he is NOT an Easter bunny"

IZ28

Yeah I don't think it looks like that car either, but it looks like all the others!! The Grand GTO. I just can't get over how much it looks like them. And it stinks too, theres no need for another front like that. I'm telling you, I bet the Charger has cues and looks something like they did. They'll use sense. This is something that seems to keep eluding GM when designing cars.

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Camaro/Chevrolet crazy F-Body lunatic.

"The new GTO, the Grand Prix/Am of musclecars." http://oz.uc.edu/~padgetjr/compare.jpg



[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited June 26, 2002).]

Ude-lose

You guys are really funny about how much you have to say about a car you've never seen in real life.... it sort of makes me think that subconciously you guys envision it as a FWR car like the GP.

I just want lutz to release it with a big set of *****.... and then see what happens-
" Not me I never critisized it... I was all for it..." yeah right...

The car is generating so much debate and anticipation.... nearly 2 years before its release...its unbelievable...

Everyone has an opinion on its looks... but everyone is unanimous about its success...

IZ28

We all want the car to do good and agree it will be a success, but why not make it better?? There are gonna be many, probably most, that will buy the car because it says GTO on it over its looks. Thats not neccessarily a good thing. I would rather have an exciting looking car that catches attention and sales because of those things and not just because of its name. (and performance too, which its obviously gonna have no matter how it looks) It should represent the car its named after in every possible way, even if its just a little, it doesn't have to be completely designed after the previous cars. But there should be some obvious GTO in it, something you could say looks like a GTO and not all those other cars.



[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited June 26, 2002).]

Ude-lose

I tell you what... Ive got the 4 door version of this vehicle with LS1 350HP 6 speed , and I look forward and get excited every opertunity i get to take this thing for a drive...

I also get to take it on trips and outings because its a cofortable cruizer and has room for extra passengers ,

i have put headers 4 into 1 > dual 2.5" outlets, and i have re-proged the PCM tune, thermostat mod, cold air intake, 3.90 gears ,,, and the car realed off a low 13 sec pass... if and when i change the cam i expect nothing but 12s..

Bloody restricted Holden Factory crud is why the GTO mag tests showed poor 1/4 mile performance...

Once you get over the looks ... a big *** smile you cross your face... WOT

IZ28

You can have speed and performance, but if you don't have the looks its not complete. Too plain looking for the performance its gonna have and the designation. I'm an enthusiast though. I can kind see others might not agree, but whatever.

[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited June 26, 2002).]

jrp4uc

Hey, don't get defensive 'cuz your car looks like a Sunfire! No, I simply put together a series of photos according to what everyone was making comments on, then threw in the front of the G-Force concept for kicks. I've already made the same post on 5 different topics defending this car. I'll leave it to the naysayers to take their foot out of their mouth when they see it on the show circuit next year and like it. :P

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-JERRY-
'02 Impreza WRX
'88 Fiero Formula
'90 Sunbird LE For Sale
Formerly owned: '93 Firebird Formula

ProudPony

No. I don't think anybody here did. But likewise, I don't recall anybody here writing "PLEASE GM, resurrect the GTO quickly for us, since you are taking our F4's away" either. The timing and situation was GM's choice, not ours.

How about... Left it alone. Call it a Pontiac Monaro, concentrate on the US safety/impact issues, and put a window sticker on it. Can you possibly do it for less money or time than that? Would the "old car enthusiasts (GTO owners in particular) have a problem with this car then - NO. Would we all still like it - YES.

And have you read the article posted by
Decromin about the designer's attitude towards this car? It's the old "We'll give 'em what we want them to have" theme. Not only that, but the original designer gloats that he feels the original Monaro design is far better than this GTO design that GM mandated anyways, i.e. GM made his team make the car uglier! WTF!?!?

No, we should not have said "do a total redesign and wait 'til '06 or '07", NOR HAVE WE. Where are you guys getting that kind of verbage from?[edit] Certainly not from us that just want either a new name or a few cues to link the new car to the old GTO. But notice in your quote - "freshened Monaro", there's the keyword.

OK - here we agree. But let me add to your case. As you said, there will only be @20K copies of this car. That means it is now a limited production run - or specialty car from the start. Priced in the hi-$30's, it is definitely a specialty car. Resurrect a 30-year-dead name like GTO on it - now you have introduced nostalgia. This is exactly the kind of formula that enthusiasts, collectors, and "hardcore stylists" pay the most attention to, and IMHO this is the potential market to target for reintroduction of a name that has been dead for 30 years. So feedback from these classes of buyer should have (and will still be) very critical to the success of this car in the long haul. If collectors and such veer away from it for whatever reason, the resale and desireability of the car will plummet. Kind of like you are eluding to with the PTCruiser.


[This message has been edited by ProudPony (edited June 26, 2002).]

ProudPony

What kills me about this topic is that a relative few of us are trying to help GM come out with a "better" package with broader appeal. That's all. But many act like we are the enemy, or are trying to do away with a good thing. It seems like so many are just happy to get anything RWD and V8 from GM right now, they are willing to overlook the wants/desires of certain groups to get it. Alienating groups of buyers, especially loyal ones or enthusiastic ones, just is not wise. GM should embrace these groups and seek thier advise/input into what a car should be. Un-freakin-believable.

AS AN OUTSIDER - The more I write on this topic, the more I have come to realize why the F4's got into the situation they are in, and why GM is going down the path it is. Look at the attitude of GM's most loyal buyers...(that's you folks in this kind of forum)
OK - yeah, I'll take that.
Um, yeah, that's good enough for me, for now anyways.
I don't really like the looks - they're OK - but man does this thing have an engine!
Well, I'll bet the next model will be lots better.

Sorry if this flames you all, but I'm just being honest.

stevil

You do realize the Monaro just came out in Austrailia a year or two ago, right? Its a new design... their first Holden coupe in a long time, at least one with an LS1, RWD, etc. I think the last Monaro they had was in the mid 70's.

Anyways... the car is being imported here asap because we want it. There is no need for a redesign. And its being sold as a Pontiac, so it should at least look like one, so its getting a quick Pontiac look and badges, and thats it.

I'm sure after a few years they'll redesign the car, maybe like those Dutch sketches, and they'll probably build it here too! But for right now, this will be good.

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FormulaV8.com · 1994 Formula · A4 · 3.23
13.45 @ 102.5 MPH w/ 1.9 60' | 267 rwhp | 307 tq/lbs | 3535 lbs
"I know for a fact he is NOT an Easter bunny"

formula79

Broader appeal huh?

The more you add crap like scoops and spoilers to a car the less appealing it is. Its like the new CTS, 50% like it, 50% don't. The problem with this is off the bat you loose 50% of the market. By making the new car understated they can attract a larger audience. Don't worry though I thi k we will see plenty of scoops and hood tachs riding around on GTO's after teh aftermarket gets involved.

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1995 Firebird A4
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1979 Firebird Formula SOLD!!! 8/2001
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Darth Xed

If anything GTO should be more of a daring, breakaway design, because why does it need to appeal to a broad market??? They are only making 20,000 per year!

It's the perfect chance to do something different... not fade into the woodwork, lookswise anyway.

muckz

I guess perceptions of each of us differ. Saying that GTO looks like Grand Prix is saying that Cavalier looks like Gran Prix.

Why, both Cavalier and Grand Prix are 2-door. The windshield angle is kind of similar.... I guess Grand Prix is just blown up Cavalier...


I look at shots of both Monaro GTO and Grand Prix and see two completely different cars. If you look at the body panels, at the lines, at the proportions - everything seems (at least to me) different from Grand Prix.

Grand Prix is a blown up bubble - too round. The GTO/Monaro has angular look to it.

What does look similar is the nose/front. In my opinion, that's where the similarities end.


[This message has been edited by muckz (edited June 26, 2002).]

Reno Leigh

Proud Pony you said everything I was gonna say and you saved me a lot of typing.

98 Blue Formula

I said in another post, I will say it here again. As an artist, I do not show the design I love the most, I show the one I like the most as a tease and to gauge response. I think this may be what GM has done with this computer enhanced Photoshop image. Also, again, this is only a picture, its not an actual car. But, since the GTO is only getting new front fenders and hood to hold down cost and speed production, you are not going to see some radically different car. Nor should we. The GTO has always looked like a LeMans, or Tempist, or (shudder) Ventura. It is going to look alot like a Grand Prix to carry that tradition. If you want more, then you may have to wait until the car is totally redesigned and built here in the states in 2006-07, and even then it may be something coming from SLP that will make everybody happy. If thats possible.

Hey, we are all car nuts here. Lets just wait and see what the actual prototype looks like. In the time being, anybody think that if the GTO does well, Pontiac will start using it in the Nascar Winston Cup and Busch series racing instead of the Grand Prix?

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1998 Dark Blue Metallic
Formula
327 hp
K&N air filter
chip mod
Brut stop brakes