White2kSS

started thinking about how when Michael Jordan came out of retirement for the 2nd time and played for the Wizards. Basically just how he was not the same even though it was him. Then I started thinking about the new GTO and Charger, and how even though it's a GTO and Charger it's just not the same. When I look at those 2 cars I don't see the muscle car it witch those name stood for. Take those badges away and you have a Grand Am and a 300M. Personally I'd rather not have a new Camaro if it's going to look like a sedan. I don't want that blemish on a Camaro, look what happened to theTBird, she came back for a few years and now it's done with an ugly chapter in it's history. I would rather the Camaro rest in peace then have it made a mockery of everything it once stood for. To me this also applies to the Chevelle, first thing that I think of when I here that word is a black w/red stripes 1970 Chevelle 454 LS6 big block. I just hope that if GM calls this new "rear wheel drive performance V8" a Chevelle or Camaro that it will not
belittle the grandparents of those names.. I know this has been said before and I'm sure this little right up will do nothing, I'm just venting
my feels for the car I love.......

Z284ever

What makes you think it'll look like a sedan?

White2kSS

GTO n Charger

dav305z

GTO and Charger were both effectively gone foor 30 years (I know Charger had some resurrections, but you get my point). The original market for these cars was gone. In contrast, a new Camaro could potentially be out just as the loans on the 2002 end. In other words, the market for the next Camaro would be exactly the same as the last Camaro. Also, the Mustang is selling well. There is no reason why GM would seek to change the basic Camaro formula.

30thZ286speed

"Take away the GTO badge and all you have is a Grand Am" No, I don't think so, not even close......A Holden, yes....Grand Am no.

You can bet your bottom dollar they will do Camaro right, at least powertrain/RWD wise. Not everyone will be happy with the styling, thats just the way it is. They can't make everyone happy. F-Body styling has always been love or hate styling with the general public and even with Camaro fans of different generations. And I think that kind of styling will continue with the 5th gen., but it will be in a more liveable pkg. compared to the 4th gen. The new Mustang is a huge hit, and has a market all to itself. I see the new Camaro following the Mustang, just as it did in 1967, but it must/better knock the socks off the Mustang, just as it did in 1967.

graham

Keep in mind MJ went to play baseball unsucessfully. Camaro just dissapeared.

What do you think the next season of the Chappele's Show will do? I bet it does quite well even after this latest fiasco.

White2kSS

"Take away the GTO badge and all you have is a Grand Am" No, I don't think so, not even close......A Holden, yes....Grand Am no.


well i mean the over all look of the new GTO "looks" like a grand am/grand prix ... the front and back end .. moslty that front end with that split grill.. I think the GTO would be doing better if it was retro... just IMO..

Stealth 86 LSC

you mean the pontiac trademark split grille front end, right? the front end thats on, ya know, all pontiacs.
I guess I can see where youd get confused there.

anasazi

if this is the case then if there is a "new" camaro it won't be around long

Fbodfather

Don't worry....there are a lot of people within GM who feel as you do that unless a car deserves the name Camaro, we're better off not using the name.

It would have been very easy for some to throw the name 'Camaro' on the new Delta (Cobalt) architecture, but that didn't happen, now did it?

Trust me.

Z28x

The 2nd time MJ came back he wore #45 and lead the Bulls to a 2nd 3-peat.

Find me a 400HP RWD Grand Am, I'd like to buy one.

The current GTO fits the original GTO formula 99.9% It loses 0.1% because there is now V6 non-GTO version to be based on. (unless you cound the base Holden Monaro)

guionM

Good grief! Are you talking about a religion or a car?

1. The Thunderbird went back to a modenized version of it's original design theme, and did exceedingly well for the 1st couple of years, despite being comparatively slow.

2. GTO looking like a Grand Am? Instead of being idealistic, try looking up GTO's history for crissakes! GTO was never anything more than an economy car with a BIG engine and a hoodscoop. Take away both and it looked just like anyone else's grandmother's Tempest or LeMans!

3. Charger, whether you have an issue with the number of doors or not, is a pretty ferociously quick car...even compared to Chargers past! I'm not a fan of the front end, but I'll admit it does look very agressive.

4. Chevelle was a fleet and rental car PERIOD! Look up the number of Chevelles sold total. Then look up the number of 454LS6 big blocks sold! Be sure to be sitting down when you do this, you might fall and hurt yourself.

Finally, what mockery are you afraid of Camaro becoming?

My 1st Camaro was a 3 box design '67 327 I inherited from my Uncle. Camaros became low and wide in the 70s. They became angular hatchbacks in the 80s. They became portly looking and simply oversized in the 90s. Camaros also have traditionally been UNDER Pontiac Firebirds in performance. Camaros have also had Type LTs, Berlinettas, RS which took up large portions of Camaro sales, while performance versions made up a minority of sales or weren't available at all.

There is a tendancy of people of putting things on a pedastal and rewriting history, and that's what it seems you are doing here. The reason why people tend to do this is because that's the only thing they see today.

No one is going to take the family car that's one of 500,000 or more on the road and spend big $$$ restoring it. But take an LS6 big block which sold perhaps 20-30 thousand at most, and it becomes a valuable piece because it's so rare. As all the other cars rust out, wear out, or scrapped, and these few cars are the only one left, people start thinking those were the only cars made, and take on God-like status.

I like muscle cars as much as the next person. Even though I came in from Ford, I've also owned 4 Camaros. But let's be honest here, Camaro is a historic car, that built it's reputation as a rear drive, low cost, modifiable, great looking, sports coupe over many years. Unless GM ignores one or more of that formula, to say that it's going to be a mockery is simply nuts.

It can have a trunk or a hatch. It can be a fast back or it can be a coupe. It can be quicker or not quite as quick as the quickest Mustang. It's still going to have a link to what Camaro always was.

As Fbodfather said, the Cobalt could have easily been called Camaro, but it wasn't. And I'm sure that wasn't the only car that could have been stuck with that name.

Bob Cosby

Ummm....keep the faith? That's its - keep the faith.

BTW....there was a GMHTP thread about the Camaro on here yesterday. Did it get moved or am I just blind? Can't seem to find it.

Yup, that would be the one he's talking about. The front end that makes it look like (ok, resemble) every other Pontiac on the road (which if you like the look, is a great thing), including Grand Ams, Grand Prixs, etc.

Funny, but Firebird never looked like every other Pontiac. Mustang doesn't look like every other Ford. For that matter, Camaro never looked like every other Chevy. "Unique" is a good thing, IMHO, which is why I don't care for the new "Chevy look" that was bantered around here a few weeks ago. Camaro doesn't have to look like Impala/Malibu/Cobalt and a bevy of trucks/SUVs for me to know that it is a Camaro.

RoMaD

Finally, a voice of reason. It's getting pretty hostile around here lately. It seems that if anyone not part of the "in" crowd posts something, they get jumped on. I mean, White2KSS is just trying to give his opinion and openly admits he's just venting. Yet the "in-the-know" crowd just has to jump all over him? Really, everyone needs to just back off. This forum is for everyone, not just those with secret-squirrel connections.

So if someone doesn't want to see a sedan-based Camaro, he's immediately spouting about religion?

This whole forum needs to lighten up and stop taking itself so seriously.

gibbylt1

Remember, the first time MJ came out of retirement, the Bulls went on to win 3 more championships.