Toe and camber suggestions?
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 69
From: Dallas, Tx USofA
Toe and camber suggestions?
Here's the skinny.....
Going to Motorsport Ranch in Ft. Worth. Been there once. First thing I noticed was my street fronts (Kuhmo's) slid all over. Bought some Nitto 555's.
Does anyone have a suggestion on toe and camber for sharp corners? This is a '97 Z28....
Here's the mods, for info purposes:
35mm front sway poly bush
21mm rear sway poly
BMR lca's poly
BMR panhard poly
Bilstein HD
BMR stb
no springs, 'cause I won't clear speedbumps at my condo
Looking to pick up a bit.....
Going to Motorsport Ranch in Ft. Worth. Been there once. First thing I noticed was my street fronts (Kuhmo's) slid all over. Bought some Nitto 555's.
Does anyone have a suggestion on toe and camber for sharp corners? This is a '97 Z28....
Here's the mods, for info purposes:
35mm front sway poly bush
21mm rear sway poly
BMR lca's poly
BMR panhard poly
Bilstein HD
BMR stb
no springs, 'cause I won't clear speedbumps at my condo
Looking to pick up a bit.....
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 111
From: LA, CA
I run my car primarily on the streets and have found that
-.5 degree of camber is ideal for both traction and longevity of the tires. Yes more camber helps a lot in the twisties but i wouldn't go over -1 degree. Don't forget you start to loose contact patch in a straight line the more camber you have, meaning the less braking you have. As far as toe goes you want to run just a tad of toe in, in a perfect world 0 would be optimal but because its not, theres a lot of slop that our cars our gona have in the front so in theory at full throtlle you will have 0.
Good luck Mike
-.5 degree of camber is ideal for both traction and longevity of the tires. Yes more camber helps a lot in the twisties but i wouldn't go over -1 degree. Don't forget you start to loose contact patch in a straight line the more camber you have, meaning the less braking you have. As far as toe goes you want to run just a tad of toe in, in a perfect world 0 would be optimal but because its not, theres a lot of slop that our cars our gona have in the front so in theory at full throtlle you will have 0.
Good luck Mike
Registered User
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,132
From: Atlanta Ga
I got rid of a lot of my slop with the Energy Suspension Control arm bushings (thank goodnesss). Seemed to help quite a bit, especially in transients. More precise now than before. One degree negative is all they could get out of mine, I told them I wanted all I could get knowing full well it wouldn't be much. I was running about -.7 camber before and everything seemed to wear just about right, very even. Now, I'll just have to take turns a little faster to make them even!!
Last edited by bruecksteve; Jul 9, 2003 at 03:26 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 842
From: Paris, Texas
Mongooze.... Are those tires 555RII or the street 555's?
The front 35mm bar could be helping you push the front end that combined with LCA that are poly at the axle and at the frame. The LCA's could be binding and not letting the car rotate properly.
As for camber.... I run -1.2
Castor.... +4.5
and Zero toe.
It is pretty darty on street but very good on the track.
BTW.... I run MSR pretty regularly.
You should check out going to Texas World Speedway with several of us at the LG Motorsports day on Aug. 2-3. There is a link in the Texas section as well as over at LS1.com.
The front 35mm bar could be helping you push the front end that combined with LCA that are poly at the axle and at the frame. The LCA's could be binding and not letting the car rotate properly.
As for camber.... I run -1.2
Castor.... +4.5
and Zero toe.
It is pretty darty on street but very good on the track.
BTW.... I run MSR pretty regularly.
You should check out going to Texas World Speedway with several of us at the LG Motorsports day on Aug. 2-3. There is a link in the Texas section as well as over at LS1.com.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 69
From: Dallas, Tx USofA
All_Z_Way,
The 555 street, I am on a budget, and they have to be better the Kuhmo 712's... I have the Dunlop 315/35/17 on the rear and didn't here them complain at all........
I have been to TMS twice with The Driver's Edge group. Trying to get on as an instructor with them.... So I'll have to pass this year with LG, but maybe next?
I just don't think the Kuhmo's were sticky enough, I taped my driving to watch later and they are audibly squealing at the point of losing grip (almost)
I do fine on Rattlesnake, but Turkey Neck they give me hell, II can only do about 65-70, and want to pick it there.... the turn right after is a slow whine that builds to a crescendo by Big Wheel to the front stretch.
Wish I could afford the 555RIIs.
Just need some more seat time......
Whom do you ride MSR for? Another group or private?
Just curious and thanks!
The 555 street, I am on a budget, and they have to be better the Kuhmo 712's... I have the Dunlop 315/35/17 on the rear and didn't here them complain at all........
I have been to TMS twice with The Driver's Edge group. Trying to get on as an instructor with them.... So I'll have to pass this year with LG, but maybe next?
I just don't think the Kuhmo's were sticky enough, I taped my driving to watch later and they are audibly squealing at the point of losing grip (almost)
I do fine on Rattlesnake, but Turkey Neck they give me hell, II can only do about 65-70, and want to pick it there.... the turn right after is a slow whine that builds to a crescendo by Big Wheel to the front stretch.
Wish I could afford the 555RIIs.
Just need some more seat time......
Whom do you ride MSR for? Another group or private?
Just curious and thanks!
Registered User
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 842
From: Paris, Texas
Originally posted by MongooseZ
Whom do you ride MSR for? Another group or private?
Whom do you ride MSR for? Another group or private?
I have done TWS twice with The Drivers Edge....most recently May31-June 1.
Were you there by chance?
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 69
From: Dallas, Tx USofA
All_Z_Way,
As a matter of Fact, I was at MSR that weekend. Did TWS in April. In April there were on two Z's there. Me and '99. Lotsa Vettes though.
Glad to see other TDE people here.
Rick's a great guy, and Mark my instructor has really helped me out, Specifically with toe-heel, which I couldn't seem to do on my own.
What mods do you have on your 96?
We'll have to hook up at one of the TDE events.... I will be at MSR in Sept (6-7 I think)
Just got moved to yellow group, but I want Mark to still help me out, so I might run a couple of blue runs.... then hop back.
Any words of wisdom for what NASA is like
Thanks!
As a matter of Fact, I was at MSR that weekend. Did TWS in April. In April there were on two Z's there. Me and '99. Lotsa Vettes though.
Glad to see other TDE people here.
Rick's a great guy, and Mark my instructor has really helped me out, Specifically with toe-heel, which I couldn't seem to do on my own.
What mods do you have on your 96?
We'll have to hook up at one of the TDE events.... I will be at MSR in Sept (6-7 I think)
Just got moved to yellow group, but I want Mark to still help me out, so I might run a couple of blue runs.... then hop back.
Any words of wisdom for what NASA is like
Thanks!
Registered User
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 842
From: Paris, Texas
Your instructor wasn't Mark Kim was it? If so, I had Mark Kim as my first instuctor at MSR.
I may make the Sept MSR event, but on the same weekend is an event at Hallett that I might go to instead.
We are all in the Yellow and Red run groups depending on the venue and number of cars.
There are several of us f-bodies that try to run events together. We post more over at LS1.com in the Road Racing section.
Look for MitchnTX, Chuck, Glenn98Zm6, Hawk#46, CBurtgo, 4wheeldrift, SSmokem02, G2 LS1.
Here is a group shot of several of us at TWS in May.http://12.213.170.218/mitchntx/group15.jpg
BTW... I have alot of the same things done as you:
STB
LCA's
G2 Springs with HD Bilstein shocks
C5 front brake kit
I may make the Sept MSR event, but on the same weekend is an event at Hallett that I might go to instead.
We are all in the Yellow and Red run groups depending on the venue and number of cars.
There are several of us f-bodies that try to run events together. We post more over at LS1.com in the Road Racing section.
Look for MitchnTX, Chuck, Glenn98Zm6, Hawk#46, CBurtgo, 4wheeldrift, SSmokem02, G2 LS1.
Here is a group shot of several of us at TWS in May.http://12.213.170.218/mitchntx/group15.jpg
BTW... I have alot of the same things done as you:
STB
LCA's
G2 Springs with HD Bilstein shocks
C5 front brake kit
Last edited by All_Z_Way; Jul 11, 2003 at 01:05 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 304
From: SW Michigan
Not sure about high speed stability but for grip in the corners you NEED some TOE OUT. I was told this for a year strait (by the ESP solo 2 champ and FS Pro Solo champ) and kept putting it off. But I can tell you I am VERY HAPPY with the toe out setting.
Currently I run -2.0 on one side and -1.6 on the other. I put a little more caster and toe out on the -1.6 side and it feels great to me. I do drive it on the street some and with my wimpy 235 tires it does fine. Occasionally I will make a run down the road to top of the tank with the 315's on and it is a BIG handfull so avoid driving on the race rubber if you can. Kumhos and Hoosiers are worse by alot than the Nittos though.
FWIW I think the two best mods you can make is a set of ground control coil overs and springs. And a set of Global West upper control arms.
The coilovers will allow you to run stiffer springs for more response and better camber control. The arms will allow you to run more negative camber and caster. And the car can stay at STOCK HEIGHT.
Most importantly HAVE FUN!!
Currently I run -2.0 on one side and -1.6 on the other. I put a little more caster and toe out on the -1.6 side and it feels great to me. I do drive it on the street some and with my wimpy 235 tires it does fine. Occasionally I will make a run down the road to top of the tank with the 315's on and it is a BIG handfull so avoid driving on the race rubber if you can. Kumhos and Hoosiers are worse by alot than the Nittos though.
FWIW I think the two best mods you can make is a set of ground control coil overs and springs. And a set of Global West upper control arms.
The coilovers will allow you to run stiffer springs for more response and better camber control. The arms will allow you to run more negative camber and caster. And the car can stay at STOCK HEIGHT.
Most importantly HAVE FUN!!
Registered User
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,132
From: Atlanta Ga
How much toe out are you running?
The reason for NOT using Poly/Poly for the rear control arm bushings is because the original bushings were designed to flex in more than one direction.
Read this about those bushings. . I don't remember where I found this so if someone reading this knows, let me know so I can give them credit. I save as much stuff as I can just in case you can't find the site anymore (which happens all the time).
The reason for NOT using Poly/Poly for the rear control arm bushings is because the original bushings were designed to flex in more than one direction.
Read this about those bushings. . I don't remember where I found this so if someone reading this knows, let me know so I can give them credit. I save as much stuff as I can just in case you can't find the site anymore (which happens all the time).