AutoXdriver

I pick up my SS on Monday!

I noticed the SS is bumped up to B Stock for autocross, but my SS will have only the standard SLP "SS" stuff, which as far as I can tell is only a front swaybar, possibly better exhaust and ram air over a stock Z28. My guess is they had to class it as if it had all of the best SLP options since it could have been ordered from the factory that way. It looks like to be competitive I may need to retrofit some of those goodies (and yes, drive very well ;-)

I can't for the life of me find a comprehensive list of just what SLP options were available for the 1997 SS. I know there were at least two exhaust systems (mine has single pipes on each side with chrome tips - and is pretty quiet). There was also more than one level of suspension (1LE?) available, one of them I believe with Bilsteins. The SLP site is no help.

First of all I'd like to upgrade the exhaust since mine is so quiet, although I think the better suspension would make the most difference on the track. I want to make sure any mods I do I could have ordered as a factory option so I won't bump myself into SP or worse.

Can anyone please either supply me with or point me to a list of the available SLP options for '97? And even better, any detailed info about them?

Thanks!

Alan

2002Z28SSConv

I found myself in the same boat that you just climbed into when I got my SS. I expected to race with the other Mustangs and F-Bods but instead was classed in B-Stock. I was able to move up to GT Prepared (FP in most clubs) and at least run against a couple other F-Bods. Even though they were on race rubber with suspension mods it was better than being in a class by myself. See if they'll let you do this. I belong to a local club and we don't have to answer to the SCCA so they were a bit more easy on me than they could have been. Since then though I got 16" Z28 wheels with street tires. There is a special exception in our rulebook that puts the SS back into GT ( or F) with the use of 16" tires. See if your club has the same deal. We follow the SCCA rules for the most part. So that might be standard practice.

At first I thought I got screwed but then I decided to use the 16" rule to my advantage. I was able to put a STB on and stay in stock class. I could have done a lot more too like going to SLP Eibach springs with Bilstien shocks, LCA's and even a thicker front sway bar. But I didn't do all that. I was already wiping the floor with the others in GT-Stock(all Fords).

Next year (as soon as my Yokohama AVS-Is wear out) I'll get race rubber. That'll put me in Prepared class, so I'll have no choice but to upgrade the suspension too . I just have to keep the 16" wheels.

AutoXdriver

Thanks for the words 2002,

It sounds like to me you got yourself bumped to a Prepared class? It seems like that would be harder to succeed in than B Stock. Kudos for your good showing there. I don't understand why running race rubber would bump you up higher. In my club (we go by SCCA rules) the only class that can't run race rubber is Street Tire. Street Tire class holds all cars, which are then graded on a PAX index which is a handicap based on what class they would have been in had they not been in Street Tire. Confused yet?

I had a set of AVS Is on my 240Z and on my stang GT. Excellent tires for a great price. Too bad there are few if any left. I'll have to check with my club about the 16" wheel rule and see if makes a difference here.

Guess I'll have to call SLP to get the info I'm looking for . I hope they're helpful people.

Alan

94bird

AutoXdriver,

I can't answer your question about exactly what options were available for '97 SSs, but I think I can simplify matters for you somewhat. In BS, using SCCA rules, you can change your front sway bar, shocks, and exhaust after the catalytic converter. The fast FS guys seem to recomend a 35mm front bar from Suspension Techniques, and either Bilstein or Koni SA shocks. Save your money on the cat back exhaust system. It won't make hardly any difference in comparison to the shocks, sway bar and tires.

AutoXdriver

94bird,

Yes I forgot catbacks were open in stock classes, I was just thinking mufflers were. I was going to change my exhaust anyway purely for the audio asthetics, I just didn't want to bump myself out of BS doing it.

So even though I'm not allowed in FS because my car is a SS, it appears the only advantage I have is 17" rims. The new LS1 Z28s make as much HP as my car or more and as far as I know the only suspension advantage a stock SS had over a Z28 was a bigger front swaybar - which as you say is open territory.

Therefore I really need to get some info on the optional suspension packages offered for the SS. These are the only options I can see that would be responsible for the SS being bumped to BS, and my car doesn't have them. What I've found out so far is mostly confusing: There were level I, II, and III suspensions. There is a Bilstein based sussnsion, and there is the 1LE. I have no details on any of them. Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks.

94bird

If you don't have much success here, you might try

http://www.slpeng.com/common/docview...ultimatebb.cgi

It's the SLP message board. I'm sure your questions must have been asked there before.

Sam Strano

There is nothing you can do the SS to truly make is competitive in B-Stock on a Divisional or National level. Essentially you have an F-stock car, and the 17"s are really little help. We know that you could get an upgraded differential, etc. from SLP, but still not enough to be able to run with S2000's and Boxster's I'm afraid.

Three options, basically.

1. Prep the car to limit of the Stock rules. it will drive better, but not be really any quicker than an F-stock car prepped the same way.

2. Get a standard Z28. Again, as quick, but you don't have to deal with the faster cars

3. Go to ESP. ESP as a class is slightly quicker than BS is, but there you can add lots of goodies (notably a real limited slip). Generally this is what most SS/WS6 owners opt to do.

2002Z28SSConv

Or you could just strip it to look like a Z28.
I've thought (briefly) of doing that. NAH!

AutoXdriver

Sam,

There must have been some reason they bumped the SS out of F Stock, and I can't believe it was 17" wheels.

Are you sure that the optional Bilstein or 1LE suspension packages don't put the SS significantly above a Z28? I don't think these are available on the Z28 are they? These mods (the 1LE especially) are almost like allowing Street Prepared type suspensions (stiffer springs, etc.) in a stock class since they were factory options.

I'm not disputing your opinon that the SS isn't competitive in B Stock, but I'm not sure what additional significant increase in cornering performance over the 1LE and Torsen rear could be gained in ESP. Please enlighten me. I mean it, I'm here to learn. Maybe a little more power can be gained with intake/exhaust work but lets face it, lack of power is not what is keeping the SS from beating the S2000s and Boxters!

Alan

94bird

Alan,

The front suspension 1LE parts are fine, but the rear parts used are too stiff for autocrossing. They hurt traction coming out a tight corner. Since aftermarket limited slips are not allowed in stock classes, a FS car without the 1LE option can be faster than a 1LE equipped car.

Regarding what else can be done in ESP:

1) 315/35/17 tires on 17x11 wheels
2) GOOD limited slip like a Torsen T2R
3) lowering car to get good negative camber on front

Those are the biggies, and they're worth a good bit.

lons94z

An ESP should be alot faster than an FS car. But it isnt. The runs are short enough to negate gains. And ESP car on a road course would be alot faster than FS.

Why? Because you can do quite a bit to an ESP car. And you can legally add quite a few common mods. Headers, intake, MAF, exhaust, springs, sway bars, wheels, limited slip, race seats, and a few other things.

And the stuff that 94bird listed is the stuff that you will see the most gains from. No question. And having had 275's and 315's if you do go with R tires go strait to 315. You will be glad you did trust me.
I may have a set of 17x11's for sale early next spring. Have not made a concrete decision to go with CCW or Fikse.

The biggest reason to keep the SS out of FS is it would create an overdog in the class which is generally avoided. Sometimes it doesnt work out that way. They figure they already gave the big pony car a place to play...FS. It is allowed in ESP because the options available are what is done to an ESP car. Only with parts that will work better.

Sam Strano

Why do the SS and WS6 get bumped from F-stock? Easy, because they left GM factories to have modifications done. This is why the Cobra version of the Mustang is okay in FS, because it's all done by Ford. For instance, an M3 is a legal car for B-Stock, but a 325is with Alpina modifications is not. It comes down to documenation as well as ability. But also, Level 1 SS cars do hold an advantage over F-Stock or base SS cars. Mostly do to the better available limited slips. That said, don't think for a moment that makes them anywhere near an ESP legal differential, they are not......

The springs available on SS's are stiffer and lower than standard springs. But again, nowhere near what you can apply in SP trim. For instance, we run a 500 pound coil-over setup in ESP on 4th gens. The "best" (and that's relative....) SLP springs are 300-450, not stiff enough to really help, and certainly not low enough to gain any useful camber.....

I think what you are missing is this: The SLP Level 1 stuff is cool, but is really useless for the most part in an autox environment. What you have is really nothing beyond any regular Z28 with different springs (not great) and a slightly better differential. Whereas in ESP you can have a GREAT differential, much more rubber on the ground (we run 17x11's on 4th gen ESP cars), better bushings to eliminate deflection, ability to change rear sway bars if need be, better seats, lighter weight (dump the cats, some trick exhaust, headers), and so forth.......

You are absolutely right when you say that power is not the problem. The problem is you weight between 300-800 pounds more than the other car in class (BS). They all have independent rear suspensions, they are all narrower too. Better balanced, better traction. F-stock is fun, and very often we surprise the B-Stock guys, but the cars are just very different. What you have is what's really *just* and F-Stock car, but caught in a bad situation. It might be a little too good for FS, and you can't ruin that class being that it's so well subscribed. It may not be great for BS, but it's the lesser of two evils.

If they allowed SS's in FS, I'd certainly upgrade my car to SS specs. I'd probably not run the springs, and I'd certainly not run the SLP shocks. But I'd be worth it for the wheels and the better differential IMHO.

Sam Strano

Very true. If a 1LE was a help, I'd have bought one. I have a standard Z28 for Stock.....

kookamunga

coulda been worse, SS's use to be in super stock last year. that really sucked, we all went to ESP cuz the pax was better lol.

"M"

AutoXdriver

Wow what great info. This place rocks! Thanks to everybody.

Well it looks like I might just have to relegate myself to autoxing for the fun of it, like I used to. This is not my daily driver but I do want it to also be a fun weekend street car and I'll do a couple of DEs a year, maybe progressing to time trials at some point. I could go all out with the mods in ESP, but I want to be able to enjoy it on the street too. I definitely think the stock suspension is too soft even on the street for my tastes and I'm planning on upgrading, but the question is to what? Anyone got any suggestions for a decent performing setup (stiffer, lower, etc.) that won't totally rattle my fillings out on the street? Lets assume ESP and a budget of $1000 (just for suspension stuff)?

Ions94Z I might be interested in the 17x11s just let me know. Anyone want some 17x9 Roush mustang wheels? They're wearing Hoosiers with 50% left.

I'm curious about all the talk about limited slip diffs. Can someone tell me what is the advantage between the one I have now (probably a clutch type), the optional SS Torsen, and a "real" (or Torsen T2R) limited slip?

I hate to just keep taking from you guys, especially if there is somewhere I can be getting this stuff myself. Anyone know of any sites with good info on setting up 4th gens for autox?

Thanks again you've all helped a lot.