Ok i bought LCA's recently and everything was quiet. Today i installed Spohn's Panhard bar and followed all thier instructions 48ft/lbs of torque etc. Well driving tongiht i began to experience the same jingling and creeking i originally had with my old worn out suspension parts. I thought i got rid of all this just to deal with it all over, i'm pretty frustrated right now. What can this jingling be from? Should retorque everything again?

Thanks guys,

 

cheap rod ends?

Even brand new, but low-quality, rod-ends will bang around.

Best bet is to call Spohn and see what threading the rod ends have and replace them with better units. This is what I've done with a PHB I got from a team-mate. (although I just meansured them myself since it's not yet installed )

The key measurements you need to match are the thread type (i.e. mine were 3/4-16, meaning 0.75" diameter, 16-threads/inch), and the bore diameter (i.e. mine was 3/4" or 0.75" )

My QA1 XMR12 and XML12 (http://www.qa1.net/rodends/endura/endura_xmrxml.html) will be here on Tuesday (~$27/each). A few guys here reccomended them in the PHR use and have had them running tight and quiet over 2 years of daily driving.

The other options I looked at were the Aurora ends, and the ultimate rod end... a NMB/NHBB. The Aurora runs ~$47/each while the NMB's run for ~$97 each. Aurora and NMB also make the same rod ends in "Heavy Duty" versions for ~$10 more which have the same spherical bearings incased in a larger threaded shaft (i.e. 7/8-14 vs the 3/4-16), although in a PHB design this is more of a waste of PHB wall thickness than increasing rod ends that are already WAY more than you need. Both Aurora and NMB are available from Baker Precision (http://bakerprecision.com/rodpick.htm) if you want, but the QA1 rodends have shown to be great for PHB use.

The QA1's are 2-peice rodends, but they have a teflon-injected race that functions similar to a 3-piece rodend would, and is "the best rodend [they] make" (per my conversation with them). The Aurora and NMB rodends are 3-piece, meaning they have a race that goes between the housing and the ball. Typically these are considered more durable... but as you can see a quality one costs much more than a 2-piece would. For a low-intensity application like the PHB, the QA1 XML12/XMR12 are more than enough (or so I've read/been-told.

I'll let ya know how my PHB turns out once I mount it.

 

"The QA1's are 2-peice rodends, but they have a teflon-injected race that functions similar to a 3-piece rodend would, and is "the best rodend [they] make" (per my conversation with them). The Aurora and NMB rodends are 3-piece, meaning they have a race that goes between the housing and the ball. Typically these are considered more durable... but as you can see a quality one costs much more than a 2-piece would. For a low-intensity application like the PHB, the QA1 XML12/XMR12 are more than enough (or so I've read/been-told."

The 3 piece rodends also have a teflon liner, and it hardly makes a 2 piece function similar to a 3 piece.

A virtue of the 3 piece is that it lets you use appropriate alloys for the race and for the housing, which are very different functions.

Whether you _need_ a 3 piece is an issue I have no expertise in, but they are substantially better than a 2 piece, which is why the rod end manufacturers can charge that much for them and sell the rod ends. But I would guess no fbody aftermarket manufacturer could spec a Panhard with them, that market is way too cost sensitive.

 

I just installed an adjustable BMR PHB and was having all sorts of noises back there. Are the Spohn's greasable? I didn't put enough grease in one end the first time. The other problem I had was the bolts used to adjust the PHB location kept coming loose until I used some loctite.

Patrick

 

Greese fittings in the housing usually mean a lower radial load capasity. teflon-lined rod ends do not require greese, although other varieties do. I'm suprised you even have a fitting there, I couldn't tell you wa would be too much or too little in this application. sorry.

 

Ummm... maybe I could have chosen my words better, however the concept is the same: the race/housing in the 3-peice is similar to a 2-piece with a teflon injected race. obviously you don't have the tensile strength of a dedicated alloy race and a full housing (since the housing is "gutted" a bit to inject a teflon race), but my understanding of the QA1 unit is that is NOT just a teflon liner, but a thick PTFE race. (http://www.qa1.net/rodends/endura/endura_xmrxml.html) They claim the edges of the housing being in contact with the spherical ball increases it's durability to heavy shocks (over a full sized PTFE race I'd agree, but over a metal 3-piece race I have my doubts... it may be a draw, I don't have any numbers to say either way though).

But yes, the QA1's 2 piece w/injected race DOES operate similar to 3 piece design.

True, that was the reason I was looking for some experience in actual Fbody/PHB applications: http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...hreadid=104746
Jon's been using the 2-piece QA1 ends for 2 years without incident... I'll be trying those out first . While they cost me ~$55 for the pair, delivered, the only other options I considered were the Aurora 3-piece ends (for ~$100) and if needed, the NMB's (For ~$220 delivered).

Quote:

But I would guess no fbody aftermarket manufacturer could spec a Panhard with them, that market is way too cost sensitive.

Actually Unbalanced Engineering specs the Aurora 3-piece rod ends in there PHB. The rod has Aurora ends and is made of tubular steel, not aluminum, and sells for only $140. http://www.unbalancedengineering.com/Camaro/
If I hadn't already had a PHR I could have saved myself a bundle and bought one of those units.

 

Ok i'm lost.....i have poly bushings on the LCA's and PHB. This week i'm gonna retighten everything and shake everything around and see whats making noise. Thanks for all the info guys

 

The use of only Poly bushings in the rear LCAs will cause suspension bind in a street or road racer. These are only good for drags. I found out the hard way myself 5 years ago. Look at the stock bushings. They are star stamped rubber, as even solid rubber would cause binding.

The rear axle needs to be able to move up and down and twist (1 side at different height than the other) at the same time. The most noticable dramatic degradation of these is coming hot out of a corner and hitting a small bump. The rear end suddenly will want to come around on you, as the rear suspension just locked up and you unloaded the inside tire violently. However, I did not notice alot of creaking then.

Now fast forward to installation of your poly panhard rod. The poly will also not allow the PHR bar to twist with the rear suspension. This binding between you PHR bar and your LCAs is the change and is where most of your noise is coming from now.

Sorry for the bad news.
Rick R

 

Thanks I CORNER now i see what my problem might be and to tell you the truth i experienced what you described taking a high speed corner today. Felt fine comming into the turn and then the back end turned in sharply, it was an interesting experience. I might sell my LCA's and buy the ones with rod-ends. Thanks again guys i'm starting to understand the whole suspension system and how it works.