Mustang Vs Camaro in Solo2...does one have an advantage over the other?
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Mustang Vs Camaro in Solo2...does one have an advantage over the other?
Hello, all! I've only been actively autocrossing with my SCCA region for this season, 12 events so far (totally stock - FS class). I realize I have a lot yet to learn so perhaps I need to just wait a bit before asking this question but here goes anyway.
No matter how well I do on any particular weekend, it seems that whenever someone shows up in a Mustang GT or Cobra, I wind up out of first place by 5 to 6 tenths of a second. In some cases, the other drivers are clerely more experienced than I am (and the Firestone Firehawks I run on I'm sure aren't the best for autocrossing although I've loved the tires otherwise) but experience and rubber differences are only factors some of the time...most of the guys I compete against are "novices" (as am I) and although they may be running on better tires, they are still true street tires. My question is, given equally skilled drivers, do the Mustang's have a true handling advantage over a camaro?
Just wondering! Thanks for any input.
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2000 black Z28 (no mods yet). Former F-body vehicles...Firebird Formula 400 (1973) and TransAm (1976 and 1979, both black/gold special editions).
I still love my firebirds but decided on a Z this time around. From Ohio; now in Nashville, Tennessee USA
No matter how well I do on any particular weekend, it seems that whenever someone shows up in a Mustang GT or Cobra, I wind up out of first place by 5 to 6 tenths of a second. In some cases, the other drivers are clerely more experienced than I am (and the Firestone Firehawks I run on I'm sure aren't the best for autocrossing although I've loved the tires otherwise) but experience and rubber differences are only factors some of the time...most of the guys I compete against are "novices" (as am I) and although they may be running on better tires, they are still true street tires. My question is, given equally skilled drivers, do the Mustang's have a true handling advantage over a camaro?
Just wondering! Thanks for any input.
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2000 black Z28 (no mods yet). Former F-body vehicles...Firebird Formula 400 (1973) and TransAm (1976 and 1979, both black/gold special editions).
I still love my firebirds but decided on a Z this time around. From Ohio; now in Nashville, Tennessee USA
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Over the past 30 or so years, F-bodies have 9 or 10 times as many national championships as Mustangs. Locally, FS is owned by LS1 F-bodies. I can't remember the last time that an LS1 Z28 didn't win FS.
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2001 Trans Am M6
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2001 Trans Am M6
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Would love to have you in our club, Middle Tennesse F-body Association, www.mtfba.org
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Owner, Nashville Speed & Performance
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Owner, Nashville Speed & Performance
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This is just coming from my personal experience, but I think the Mustangs are better at quick transitional maneuvers and the F bodys are better at steady state cornering and acceleration. The Mustangs also have better brakes to handle temperatures on a road course, but in autocrossing that shouldn't be much of a factor.
Here in Detroit Mustangs rule FS, but a lot of our courses are tight and very technical. A Mustang is easier to throw around on a course like this. In Texas, based on some of things I've seen on this board, the courses are longer and probably more wide open. I autocrossed in Nashville a few times about 4 years ago, and the courses were at Tennessee Speed and Sport off I65. It was very tight and technical. If this is anything like what you run in Murfreesboro, I'd think a Mustang would be tough competition.
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Mike Taylor
'94 Formula
Holley Cold Air, Borla downpipe, Walker UltraFlo catback, BMR STB, BMR PHR, Ground Control coilovers, Bilsteins, G2 Torque Arm, Torsen T2R, 16x9.5 Rikens, 255/50/16 Street tires, 17x9 SLP Wheels, Kumho 275/40/17 V700, 17x11 AFS Wheels, No tires for these yet
[This message has been edited by 94bird (edited August 20, 2002).]
Here in Detroit Mustangs rule FS, but a lot of our courses are tight and very technical. A Mustang is easier to throw around on a course like this. In Texas, based on some of things I've seen on this board, the courses are longer and probably more wide open. I autocrossed in Nashville a few times about 4 years ago, and the courses were at Tennessee Speed and Sport off I65. It was very tight and technical. If this is anything like what you run in Murfreesboro, I'd think a Mustang would be tough competition.
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Mike Taylor
'94 Formula
Holley Cold Air, Borla downpipe, Walker UltraFlo catback, BMR STB, BMR PHR, Ground Control coilovers, Bilsteins, G2 Torque Arm, Torsen T2R, 16x9.5 Rikens, 255/50/16 Street tires, 17x9 SLP Wheels, Kumho 275/40/17 V700, 17x11 AFS Wheels, No tires for these yet
[This message has been edited by 94bird (edited August 20, 2002).]
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From: Bay Area, CA
Don't know the Solo2 rules, but in CMC the Mustangs are mostly described as harder to drive at the limits compared to the Camaro.
The 5.0s are also easy to make lightweight, not sure how closely that would be monitored for you guys.
The 5.0s are also easy to make lightweight, not sure how closely that would be monitored for you guys.
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by 94bird:
This is just coming from my personal experience, but I think the Mustangs are better at quick transitional maneuvers and the F bodys are better at steady state cornering and acceleration. The Mustangs also have better brakes to handle temperatures on a road course, but in autocrossing that shouldn't be much of a factor.
Here in Detroit Mustangs rule FS, but a lot of our courses are tight and very technical. A Mustang is easier to throw around on a course like this. In Texas, based on some of things I've seen on this board, the courses are longer and probably more wide open. I autocrossed in Nashville a few times about 4 years ago, and the courses were at Tennessee Speed and Sport off I65. It was very tight and technical. If this is anything like what you run in Murfreesboro, I'd think a Mustang would be tough competition.
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This is just coming from my personal experience, but I think the Mustangs are better at quick transitional maneuvers and the F bodys are better at steady state cornering and acceleration. The Mustangs also have better brakes to handle temperatures on a road course, but in autocrossing that shouldn't be much of a factor.
Here in Detroit Mustangs rule FS, but a lot of our courses are tight and very technical. A Mustang is easier to throw around on a course like this. In Texas, based on some of things I've seen on this board, the courses are longer and probably more wide open. I autocrossed in Nashville a few times about 4 years ago, and the courses were at Tennessee Speed and Sport off I65. It was very tight and technical. If this is anything like what you run in Murfreesboro, I'd think a Mustang would be tough competition.
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Murfreesboro is about 25 miles from Nashville and I compete in the Tennessee Region which includes all of middle Tennessee including Nash. One of the reasons I asked the question is because I haven't driven a Mustang since 1980 so I have no idea how the Mustang of today handles - on course, they look as if they are a bit more balanced than do other F-bodies when I watch them. I suspect that more seat time is the best cure for my lack of taking more first place awards. We run all the way through November plus I'm going to start traveling to some other close regions to compete. Thanks for the reply!------------------
2000 black Z28 (no mods yet). Former F-body vehicles...Firebird Formula 400 (1973) and TransAm (1976 and 1979, both black/gold special editions).
I still love my firebirds but decided on a Z this time around. From Ohio; now in Nashville, Tennessee USA
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by chuck:
Over the past 30 or so years, F-bodies have 9 or 10 times as many national championships as Mustangs. Locally, FS is owned by LS1 F-bodies. I can't remember the last time that an LS1 Z28 didn't win FS.
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Over the past 30 or so years, F-bodies have 9 or 10 times as many national championships as Mustangs. Locally, FS is owned by LS1 F-bodies. I can't remember the last time that an LS1 Z28 didn't win FS.
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From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Alledgedly the IRS Mustangs (I think that is only 99+ SVTs) handle much better than the live axle Mustangs. The Camaros seem to do much better than the live axle Mustangs, jury is still out compared to the IRS mustangs.
If you check out performance handling mods for the Mustang, they'll basically rip out the rear suspension and replace it with one similar to a Camaro.
When I was shopping for a car to autocross, I considered both Mustangs and Camaros. It looked like it would take alot more $$ (getting a newer IRS Mustang) or alot of mods (bumping me out of stock class) for a Mustang to handle as well as a Camaro.
If you check out performance handling mods for the Mustang, they'll basically rip out the rear suspension and replace it with one similar to a Camaro.
When I was shopping for a car to autocross, I considered both Mustangs and Camaros. It looked like it would take alot more $$ (getting a newer IRS Mustang) or alot of mods (bumping me out of stock class) for a Mustang to handle as well as a Camaro.
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From: South Lyon, Mi.
i have been to about a dozen autocross events this year with my 2002 Z28 with moderate mods. I do notice that mustangs are better at the tight courses, especially 99-01 and 03 cobras (they didn't make a 2002 cobra) they have independent rear suspension that just blows away f-bodies but they can be beat with a few mods. There are several reasons why when I was in FS mustangs were better, first of all mustangs come with 17" rims with better tires than a Z28 which has 16" rims. the mustangs chassis is a little stiffer than a camaro unless you have subframe connectors, the other advantage other than larger wheels and better brakes on a GT is that they don't have nearly the power or weight of an ls1, mustangs are better proportionally front to rear because they only have a 4.6 liter. also the power can either help or hurt you. In an ls1 if you gun it coming out of corners (my novice mistakes) you will have to much tire spin and your back end will sway as compared to a wimpy mustang that doesn't have nearly the power to gun it and lose control on a turn. The ls1 takes a much more experienced driver to beat a mustang but with experience you will be able to beat them. I have driven mustangs and I like them in autocross, they don't accelerate as fast as a camaro which means you can slow down quicker before going into a turn and glide through it where as a camaro will get you up to speed then you have to brake slowly otherwise you get terrible nose dive and throw off the balance of your car during a turn.
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Robert_Nashville:
. . . My question is, given equally skilled drivers, do the Mustang's have a true handling advantage over a camaro?</font>
. . . My question is, given equally skilled drivers, do the Mustang's have a true handling advantage over a camaro?</font>
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by jp2002ls1:
There are several reasons why when I was in FS mustangs were better, first of all mustangs come with 17" rims with better tires than a Z28 which has 16" rims. the mustangs chassis is a little stiffer than a camaro unless you have subframe connectors, the other advantage other than larger wheels and better brakes on a GT is that they don't have nearly the power or weight of an ls1, mustangs are better proportionally front to rear because they only have a 4.6 liter. also the power can either help or hurt you. In an ls1 if you gun it coming out of corners (my novice mistakes) you will have to much tire spin and your back end will sway as compared to a wimpy mustang that doesn't have nearly the power to gun it and lose control on a turn. The ls1 takes a much more experienced driver to beat a mustang but with experience you will be able to beat them. I have driven mustangs and I like them in autocross, they don't accelerate as fast as a camaro which means you can slow down quicker before going into a turn and glide through it where as a camaro will get you up to speed then you have to brake slowly otherwise you get terrible nose dive and throw off the balance of your car during a turn.
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There are several reasons why when I was in FS mustangs were better, first of all mustangs come with 17" rims with better tires than a Z28 which has 16" rims. the mustangs chassis is a little stiffer than a camaro unless you have subframe connectors, the other advantage other than larger wheels and better brakes on a GT is that they don't have nearly the power or weight of an ls1, mustangs are better proportionally front to rear because they only have a 4.6 liter. also the power can either help or hurt you. In an ls1 if you gun it coming out of corners (my novice mistakes) you will have to much tire spin and your back end will sway as compared to a wimpy mustang that doesn't have nearly the power to gun it and lose control on a turn. The ls1 takes a much more experienced driver to beat a mustang but with experience you will be able to beat them. I have driven mustangs and I like them in autocross, they don't accelerate as fast as a camaro which means you can slow down quicker before going into a turn and glide through it where as a camaro will get you up to speed then you have to brake slowly otherwise you get terrible nose dive and throw off the balance of your car during a turn.
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2000 black Z28/tan leather interior. Currently a daily driver and a weekend warrior (Solo2; Tennessee Region, SCCA). Former F-body vehicles; Firebird Formula 400 (1973) and TransAm (1976 and 1979, both black/gold special editions). From Ohio; now in Nashville, Tennessee USA
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Uh, i am 99% an LS1 motor is as light, or lighter than a SOHC 4.6L stang motor. more displacment doesn't mean more weight! Also, all your other "reasons" why a mustang is better actually show why its worse. less power, is NOT a good thing. thats why Z06s OWN SS, a C5 has no chance.
now, if the driver sux *****, then sure.. less power will help.. but that just means the driver sux, not that the car is better.
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-94 Black T-Topped Z28 M6, 10s, and daily driven!
-96 CBR F3, modded of course
-92 Talon Tsi AWD, also too many mods..
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now, if the driver sux *****, then sure.. less power will help.. but that just means the driver sux, not that the car is better.
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-94 Black T-Topped Z28 M6, 10s, and daily driven!
-96 CBR F3, modded of course
-92 Talon Tsi AWD, also too many mods..
-99 Tony Kart
http://www.fastblackcar.com
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JordonMusser:
Uh, i am 99% an LS1 motor is as light, or lighter than a SOHC 4.6L stang motor. Also, all your other "reasons" why a mustang is better actually show why its worse. less power, is NOT a good thing. thats why Z06s OWN SS, a C5 has no chance.
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Uh, i am 99% an LS1 motor is as light, or lighter than a SOHC 4.6L stang motor. Also, all your other "reasons" why a mustang is better actually show why its worse. less power, is NOT a good thing. thats why Z06s OWN SS, a C5 has no chance.
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I've seen different numbers for the curb weight for both Mustangs and Camaros so I'm not sure which is heavier...one of my friends/competitors who drives a Bullitt says his is much heavier than the 4th gen Z28 he traded for it.
And although I love power
I disagree that power is the reason ZO6s dominate SS...I think it's the handling difference; if fact from what I've been seeing, power plays a very small role in autocross; at least on the very technical courses we tend to run here...I'm sure a more open course would allow HP to make more of a difference.------------------
2000 black Z28/tan leather interior. Currently a daily driver and a weekend warrior (Solo2; Tennessee Region, SCCA). Former F-body vehicles; Firebird Formula 400 (1973) and TransAm (1976 and 1979, both black/gold special editions). From Ohio; now in Nashville, Tennessee USA