how good can a lt1 camaro really do in autocross can they be competitive it just doesnt seem like the right car for a road course. Im trying to decide weather to do autox or drag. So far ive been leaning towards drag but auto x looks like alot of fun.
Registered User
Well, autocross and "road course" aren't the same thing. Autocross is done in a large parking lot or other flat surface, and a "course" is made out of cones. A road course is a track like you see trans am, formula 1, or other "road racing" on. Both these events have specific rules and classes to ensure all types of vehicles are somewhat normalized. That is, you're not going to autocross a stock Camaro against a Lotus Elise for example. So yes, the Camaro will be competitive, it's more of a decision as to what type of car you want to drive, then building your skills to be competitive to the other drivers who're also driving that type of car.
Dave
Dave
Registered User
If I were you, I'd start with thr autocross first. See how you like it. Decide from there whether you want to continue autocross ( alot more economical), go road racing (much bigger money) or drag racing (nothing's cheap).
I've autocrossed since 1973 and while I've always wanted to go road racing, I've also known my wallet can't afford it.
(Shameful plug for money)
But....... you can't beat the adrenalin rush you get when you make that great banzi autocross run on your last run, to win your class by .015 seconds.
Start with autocross and work your way up. Take a look at some of the cars I've autocrossed. They were all competitive in their class and outclassed quite a few other cars that you might think would be faster.
I've autocrossed since 1973 and while I've always wanted to go road racing, I've also known my wallet can't afford it.
(Shameful plug for money) But....... you can't beat the adrenalin rush you get when you make that great banzi autocross run on your last run, to win your class by .015 seconds.
Start with autocross and work your way up. Take a look at some of the cars I've autocrossed. They were all competitive in their class and outclassed quite a few other cars that you might think would be faster.
Registered User
Here is an example.
Go here
http://www.crystalridge.net/cars/aut...03/POINTS5.TXT
and look at some of the results. As you will see, some of the Camaro's were among the fastest cars out there when compared to the Corvette's etc. That doesn't mean that a Camaro will beat a Corvette if they are prepared the same and driven bya driver of equal skill. But the Camaro's (and Firebirds) are very competitive. Here is another example. The numbers you see below are the PAX'd times for the drivers that day. Basically, the PAX time is an indexed time based on class results at the Nationals. You take a raw time and multiply it by the index (for F Stock cars it's .806). You can see 4 Camaro's in the top ten PAX times. It means these drivers did very well irregardless of of class. In other words, Tommy drove better than anyone else, based on the time he got in F Stock).
1. 29/FS TOMMY PULLIAM 00 CHEV CAMARO (0.806) 33.339
2. 167/CSP ROB HEISER HOND CIVIC (0.839) 33.611
3. 3/AS STEVE WATERS 91 CHEV CORVETTE (0.828) 33.920
4. 67/SM2 HEATH MCMILLAN 85 HOND CRX (0.851) 34.198
5. 7/HS PEDRO EBERT 98 VW GOLF GL (0.778) 34.290
6. 27/FS JERRY GRIGG 96 CHEV CAMARO (0.806) 34.434
7. 51/FS JIM FOSSUM 98 CAME Z-28 (0.806) 34.472
8. 53/ES MICHAEL PLUMER 93 MAZD MIATA (0.804) 34.508
9. 41/STS CASEY HANNAN 97 ACUR INTERGRA G (0.784) 34.513
10. 37/FS TONY SCHULZ 02 CHEV CAMARO (0.806) 34.529
Go here
http://www.crystalridge.net/cars/aut...03/POINTS5.TXT
and look at some of the results. As you will see, some of the Camaro's were among the fastest cars out there when compared to the Corvette's etc. That doesn't mean that a Camaro will beat a Corvette if they are prepared the same and driven bya driver of equal skill. But the Camaro's (and Firebirds) are very competitive. Here is another example. The numbers you see below are the PAX'd times for the drivers that day. Basically, the PAX time is an indexed time based on class results at the Nationals. You take a raw time and multiply it by the index (for F Stock cars it's .806). You can see 4 Camaro's in the top ten PAX times. It means these drivers did very well irregardless of of class. In other words, Tommy drove better than anyone else, based on the time he got in F Stock).
1. 29/FS TOMMY PULLIAM 00 CHEV CAMARO (0.806) 33.339
2. 167/CSP ROB HEISER HOND CIVIC (0.839) 33.611
3. 3/AS STEVE WATERS 91 CHEV CORVETTE (0.828) 33.920
4. 67/SM2 HEATH MCMILLAN 85 HOND CRX (0.851) 34.198
5. 7/HS PEDRO EBERT 98 VW GOLF GL (0.778) 34.290
6. 27/FS JERRY GRIGG 96 CHEV CAMARO (0.806) 34.434
7. 51/FS JIM FOSSUM 98 CAME Z-28 (0.806) 34.472
8. 53/ES MICHAEL PLUMER 93 MAZD MIATA (0.804) 34.508
9. 41/STS CASEY HANNAN 97 ACUR INTERGRA G (0.784) 34.513
10. 37/FS TONY SCHULZ 02 CHEV CAMARO (0.806) 34.529
Registered User
A car is only as good as it's driver....to a point.
Personally I love my LT1 f bod for auto x. FS in my region is kind of weak, but there is usually an 00 Z28 and a couple late model Mustangs. Last time out 4 cars were separated by 2 seconds, on a course that took just shy of a minute. I came in .2xxx seconds behind the 00 Z28.
My car is stock right down to GSC tires and 30 mm front bar, but the car is still a blast.
A set of Victoracers are in my very near future though.
Personally I love my LT1 f bod for auto x. FS in my region is kind of weak, but there is usually an 00 Z28 and a couple late model Mustangs. Last time out 4 cars were separated by 2 seconds, on a course that took just shy of a minute. I came in .2xxx seconds behind the 00 Z28.
My car is stock right down to GSC tires and 30 mm front bar, but the car is still a blast.
A set of Victoracers are in my very near future though.
Registered User
Keep in mind the car Tommy Pulliam drives is stock yet he beat most every car out there. And we have no shortage of National Champion caliber drivers (of which Tommy is one).
A car IS only as good as the driver. I could put any number of people in Tommy's car and I'd lay money that none of them would beat his times. He knows his car like the back of his hand. Out of all the things you can do to your car, your driving skills make the most difference. Sure, you can improve everything by swapping suspension parts, getting better tires, make more power, etc. but it all means little without the proper skill and experience.
A car IS only as good as the driver. I could put any number of people in Tommy's car and I'd lay money that none of them would beat his times. He knows his car like the back of his hand. Out of all the things you can do to your car, your driving skills make the most difference. Sure, you can improve everything by swapping suspension parts, getting better tires, make more power, etc. but it all means little without the proper skill and experience.
Registered User
Quote:
Originally posted by bruecksteve
Sure, you can improve everything by swapping suspension parts, getting better tires, make more power, etc. but it all means little without the proper skill and experience.
That pretty much says it all......Originally posted by bruecksteve
Sure, you can improve everything by swapping suspension parts, getting better tires, make more power, etc. but it all means little without the proper skill and experience.
F-bodies are very competitive, but experience (seat time) is the most important factor.
Kurt
Registered User
F-bodys can do very well. In fact, I'm kind of in a battle for overall third place with an SS in B stock in my region right now. Of course, he's been running on Victoracers and some suspension work against my bone stock S2000 on street tires. I just got a set of Victoracers though so I think I'll be able to beat him for the rest of the season. Hopefully. Maybe. [crosses fingers]
Not all auto-x's are in parking lots though. We have several events at a kart track.
BTW, "stock" in auto-x terms doesn't mean factory, showroom stock. You can add adjustable shocks (2-way), bigger tires, front adjustabe sway bar, and a cat back exhaust and still run in stock class.
Not all auto-x's are in parking lots though. We have several events at a kart track.
BTW, "stock" in auto-x terms doesn't mean factory, showroom stock. You can add adjustable shocks (2-way), bigger tires, front adjustabe sway bar, and a cat back exhaust and still run in stock class.
Registered User
Yea, I sort of disagree with all the changes you can make in stock, especially the tires. I think stock should only run tires that are 140 treadware rating or better. And why should they be allowed to change sway bars? That's not exactly an expendible item.
If you look at the results from last years Nationals stock was not far behind street prepared. Which is EXACTLY why I said it comes down to the driver more than anything.
The following times are a combination of the best run from two seperate courses added together.
F Stock - 99.931
ESP - 96.481
3.5 second difference or about 1.75 seconds a course. Not much difference considering all the things you can do in SP and not in FS.
If you look at the results from last years Nationals stock was not far behind street prepared. Which is EXACTLY why I said it comes down to the driver more than anything.
The following times are a combination of the best run from two seperate courses added together.
F Stock - 99.931
ESP - 96.481
3.5 second difference or about 1.75 seconds a course. Not much difference considering all the things you can do in SP and not in FS.
Registered User
zulaman13,
i hope you are still checking this thread...
i live in NJ too and i go autocrossing quite often.
you can tag along anytime.
you should be aware that our F-bodies (camaros and firebirds) actually can do quite well in autocross. at the last event i was in, i set the fastest time of the day out of about 60 or so cars.
car #113, class A:
http://www.themclub.net/tmc_071103ax.htm
some other quick cars there were a 2003 BMW M3 with pirelli "R" corsa tires and a new mitsu evo, new vettes, many prosches, etc. and keep in mind that my car has stock springs and torque arm. (my times were off in the last four runs because of rain, but my morning session runs were fast enough to set FTD)
if you want to go, we're racing at giants stadium parking lot:
-sunday july 20th with the porsche club (PCA)
-friday july 25th with the M club
let me know if you want to go and i'll tell you what time to arrive.
oh, and i drag race my car too and open track it as well. 
i hope you are still checking this thread...
i live in NJ too and i go autocrossing quite often.
you can tag along anytime.
you should be aware that our F-bodies (camaros and firebirds) actually can do quite well in autocross. at the last event i was in, i set the fastest time of the day out of about 60 or so cars.
car #113, class A:
http://www.themclub.net/tmc_071103ax.htm
some other quick cars there were a 2003 BMW M3 with pirelli "R" corsa tires and a new mitsu evo, new vettes, many prosches, etc. and keep in mind that my car has stock springs and torque arm. (my times were off in the last four runs because of rain, but my morning session runs were fast enough to set FTD)
if you want to go, we're racing at giants stadium parking lot:
-sunday july 20th with the porsche club (PCA)
-friday july 25th with the M club
let me know if you want to go and i'll tell you what time to arrive.
oh, and i drag race my car too and open track it as well.
Registered User
Quote:
Originally posted by bruecksteve
Yea, I sort of disagree with all the changes you can make in stock, especially the tires.
The following times are a combination of the best run from two seperate courses added together.
F Stock - 99.931
ESP - 96.481
3.5 second difference or about 1.75 seconds a course. Not much difference considering all the things you can do in SP and not in FS.
Originally posted by bruecksteve
Yea, I sort of disagree with all the changes you can make in stock, especially the tires.
The following times are a combination of the best run from two seperate courses added together.
F Stock - 99.931
ESP - 96.481
3.5 second difference or about 1.75 seconds a course. Not much difference considering all the things you can do in SP and not in FS.
Um, well since I kinda have intimate knowledge of those times I think I ought to point out some things that maybe misunderstood. First and foremost is that ESP ran @ 8 AM on Tues/Wed. Nobody had been on course before us, and it wasn't cleaned at all. FS ran 2nd heat and on the opposite course. So it was warmer, and the course FS ran first was the more transitional of the two (which means the line is more dictated and cleaned off faster).
And we are talking about a 3.5% difference in times too. :-)
FWIW, that's also a larger gap between the two classes than in a lot of years past........
Registered User
Oh yeah, and to answer the question.... How good is a Camaro for autox?
2001 Z28--FS ProSolo championship winner 2002
82 Z28--ESP National Championship winner 2002
And I'd have been 2nd in SM based on times, and outran them completely on the South course. *and* I think would have finished like 4th or 5th in Super Stock vs. all the Z06's. Again, those are just number to play with as we ran @ different times, but it's interesting none-the-less.
And that's just me!
Serious, the last time *anything* else won FS it was in the 80's. Last time anything else won in ESP was oh, 97 or 98.... Lots of other competitive cars, but the F-body ends up winning more often than not (strength in numbers).
How competitive is it? Very.
2001 Z28--FS ProSolo championship winner 2002
82 Z28--ESP National Championship winner 2002
And I'd have been 2nd in SM based on times, and outran them completely on the South course. *and* I think would have finished like 4th or 5th in Super Stock vs. all the Z06's. Again, those are just number to play with as we ran @ different times, but it's interesting none-the-less.
And that's just me!
Serious, the last time *anything* else won FS it was in the 80's. Last time anything else won in ESP was oh, 97 or 98.... Lots of other competitive cars, but the F-body ends up winning more often than not (strength in numbers).
How competitive is it? Very.