Circle Wheels.. Anyone -->
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 65
Circle Wheels.. Anyone -->
do any business with them? I am looking for Black Steel Wheels for my 94 Camaro Z28 for auto cross events. I really like their 11610 (16X10 Black) wheels but race tire fitment is an issue (largest race tire for autox is 275-45 in 16" size and they are $208.00 from TireRack) and I like to use 315X35ZR17 tires all corners. All Circle Wheels 17" tires are forged Aluminium and high priced (too high for trashing around on autocross tracks). Do I have to special order the 17" black steel wheels? If I can special order them (in size 17X10 or 17X11) what is the process and pricing?
Anyone Know?
Thanks..
Anyone Know?
Thanks..
Registered User
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 113
From: Los Altos, CA, USA
I'm not familar with that company...
but...
Spend the $$ to get the lighter weight wheels, the reduction in rotating interial mass is well worth it.
TAke a look at these guys http://www.groupawheels.com/prod02.htm
They make real competiton wheels
but...
Spend the $$ to get the lighter weight wheels, the reduction in rotating interial mass is well worth it.
TAke a look at these guys http://www.groupawheels.com/prod02.htm
They make real competiton wheels
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 65
Yes, definitely want to reduce the rotational mass!! And would love to have a set of ForgeLine wheels ($650.00 piece). Steel wheels are usually lighter than most cast or spun forged aluminium wheels. Circle Wheels' 16X10 painted steel wheels are a bit over 24 lbs.
That site (http://www.groupawheels.com/prod02.htm) don't have much. They don't even sell competition tires!!
Wonder if I should go woth LS1 brakes and 275-45R16 Hoosiers S03 tires on 16X10 wheels?
Thanks
Click here to see my cars.......
That site (http://www.groupawheels.com/prod02.htm) don't have much. They don't even sell competition tires!!
Wonder if I should go woth LS1 brakes and 275-45R16 Hoosiers S03 tires on 16X10 wheels?
Thanks
Click here to see my cars.......
Registered User
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 113
From: Los Altos, CA, USA
Just a note on CCW
I have heard some really nasty things about their products. A lot of my contacts have had problems with their wheels coming out of the box out-of-round.
A board member - I think it was Bob Bishop had mentioned to me that upon doing some research he found that CCW wheels were defelcting a full 0.25" from top to bottom under cornering load.
1/4" deflection on a wheels is absolutely insane; dangerous
I have heard some really nasty things about their products. A lot of my contacts have had problems with their wheels coming out of the box out-of-round.
A board member - I think it was Bob Bishop had mentioned to me that upon doing some research he found that CCW wheels were defelcting a full 0.25" from top to bottom under cornering load.
1/4" deflection on a wheels is absolutely insane; dangerous
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 172
Lowend,
That was their 18” diameter wheel. Their 17” wheel (all other things being equal) would have less deflection. The .250” deflection wasn’t under actual cornering load, but under standard (maximum?) test bench load, which I was told was much greater than the load the wheel would see on the track. It should be seen as positive that a manufacturer goes to the expense of having his wheels independently tested at all. Some I have spoken to don’t. Other wheels have tested worse than that.
All wheels deflect some. Those that deflect least are cast (not forged) magnesium, and they are very brittle. I saw a formula car with cast magnesiums spin on the front straight at TWS (thank you all of you air cooled 911’s for dropping oil on tracks around the world for 40 years now). It was a PCA Drivers Ed event, and he went into the concrete wall outside the pit lane at @ 50 MPH. The inner wheels shattered into shards like a glass vase dropped on concrete. The BBS three-piece cast magnesium wheels have soft aluminum (replaceable) lug seat inserts to cushion the cast magnesium from the stresses of the tightened lug nuts. The wheels I saw shatter were not BBS’s.
On the other side, the deflection wouldn’t be from top to bottom, but from center to bottom (a 9” span) if you accept the center of the bolt pattern as the fulcrum. Or a 6.625” span if you take the lower lug nut as the fulcrum.
And, wheel deflection definitely hurts lap times. The Chevy C5R team switched from the BBS one-piece forged magnesium wheels to the OZ equivalent because the new OZ wheel had less deflection. Both manufacturers’ 18” x 14” rear wheels weigh 16 lbs, but the drivers could feel less deflection in the OZ wheels; it was also measured. All of the team drivers were @ ½ second/lap quicker on the lower deflecting wheels (it wasn’t specified which track they were testing at, but they often used Sebring and Road Atlanta at that time). That is a very large difference in lap time. To be fair, very few of us will stress our wheels as much they do. We don’t pull much over 1 g, if that; they exceed 1.6 g’s with ground effects/downforce in full swing.
It is all a matter of trade offs. The top teams accept the additional deflection of forged mag over cast mag for the added material integrity (resiliency). If they kiss a barrier, they still want the wheel to be in one piece.
Like my grandmother Roseanne Rosanna-Danna used to say, “It’s always sumpin”.
Bob Bishop
That was their 18” diameter wheel. Their 17” wheel (all other things being equal) would have less deflection. The .250” deflection wasn’t under actual cornering load, but under standard (maximum?) test bench load, which I was told was much greater than the load the wheel would see on the track. It should be seen as positive that a manufacturer goes to the expense of having his wheels independently tested at all. Some I have spoken to don’t. Other wheels have tested worse than that.
All wheels deflect some. Those that deflect least are cast (not forged) magnesium, and they are very brittle. I saw a formula car with cast magnesiums spin on the front straight at TWS (thank you all of you air cooled 911’s for dropping oil on tracks around the world for 40 years now). It was a PCA Drivers Ed event, and he went into the concrete wall outside the pit lane at @ 50 MPH. The inner wheels shattered into shards like a glass vase dropped on concrete. The BBS three-piece cast magnesium wheels have soft aluminum (replaceable) lug seat inserts to cushion the cast magnesium from the stresses of the tightened lug nuts. The wheels I saw shatter were not BBS’s.
On the other side, the deflection wouldn’t be from top to bottom, but from center to bottom (a 9” span) if you accept the center of the bolt pattern as the fulcrum. Or a 6.625” span if you take the lower lug nut as the fulcrum.
And, wheel deflection definitely hurts lap times. The Chevy C5R team switched from the BBS one-piece forged magnesium wheels to the OZ equivalent because the new OZ wheel had less deflection. Both manufacturers’ 18” x 14” rear wheels weigh 16 lbs, but the drivers could feel less deflection in the OZ wheels; it was also measured. All of the team drivers were @ ½ second/lap quicker on the lower deflecting wheels (it wasn’t specified which track they were testing at, but they often used Sebring and Road Atlanta at that time). That is a very large difference in lap time. To be fair, very few of us will stress our wheels as much they do. We don’t pull much over 1 g, if that; they exceed 1.6 g’s with ground effects/downforce in full swing.
It is all a matter of trade offs. The top teams accept the additional deflection of forged mag over cast mag for the added material integrity (resiliency). If they kiss a barrier, they still want the wheel to be in one piece.
Like my grandmother Roseanne Rosanna-Danna used to say, “It’s always sumpin”.
Bob Bishop
Last edited by lateapex; Mar 8, 2003 at 02:34 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 172
Yea, that car started off in 1970 at 2,355 lbs, but Car and Driver weighed a 350Z recently at 3363 lbs CURB weight. WoW!!!
I don't know what your car weighs, but I'm sure our Fbodies are hopelessly overweight by comparison. And it stresses all of the suspension components.
Bob
I don't know what your car weighs, but I'm sure our Fbodies are hopelessly overweight by comparison. And it stresses all of the suspension components.
Bob
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,148
From: Bay Area, CA
Yep, I'm not sure whats up with the weight thing (I haven't weighed mine yet), but some 70/71 guys claim that they are in the 2200 area without fiberglass parts. After 72 though the metal was beefed up slightly in the floorpan area, adding some weight. 74+ even more body thickness.
This may sound like a wierd way to compare the two cars, but pushing the 240Z is EASY, and pushing the Camaro even for me, is HARD up even a modest hill.
I'm relatively new to Z cars, but I could not see me in a 350Z due to its weight, pig pig pig. If I'm going to drive a pig its only going to be a fun street car with a V8, but I'm fully behind having a light road car nowdays
The Miata is the only car I'm aware of (that isn't a true econo-box) that is around the same weight, horsepower is about the same last I checked (130ish). They have a small wheel well though so I dont know what they can run, the 240Z is a little larger by dimension so the wheel area is a little more open.
This may sound like a wierd way to compare the two cars, but pushing the 240Z is EASY, and pushing the Camaro even for me, is HARD up even a modest hill.
I'm relatively new to Z cars, but I could not see me in a 350Z due to its weight, pig pig pig. If I'm going to drive a pig its only going to be a fun street car with a V8, but I'm fully behind having a light road car nowdays
The Miata is the only car I'm aware of (that isn't a true econo-box) that is around the same weight, horsepower is about the same last I checked (130ish). They have a small wheel well though so I dont know what they can run, the 240Z is a little larger by dimension so the wheel area is a little more open.
Last edited by Dr.Mudge; Mar 9, 2003 at 02:33 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,148
From: Bay Area, CA
These circle wheels are looking pretty good! I can pick my offset, bolt pattern, etc and the pricing is great for a "custom wheel."
There are various vendors, but I'm at the source:
http://www.circlekarting.com/Merchan...tegory_Code=rr
That should take you to the Road Race section.
There are various vendors, but I'm at the source:
http://www.circlekarting.com/Merchan...tegory_Code=rr
That should take you to the Road Race section.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 65
whoa! check out the weight of those steel 16x10 wheels! 25lbs. they are cheap but HEAVY. are you sure you want something that heavy?
17X11 Aluminium Wheel
Code: 85711
Price: $532.00
Shipping Weight: 19.30 pounds
16X10 Black Steel Wheel
Code: 11610
Price: $85.80
Shipping Weight: 24.50 pounds
Weight difference is approx. 5 pounds
Cost diference is $446.00/per wheel
$1784.00 on all 4 corners.. That is almost 8 race tires!!!
Or Brembo Brakes!!
I can use 315-35R17 with the aluminium wheels
but I can only go 275-45R16 with the steel ones.