The Camaro at Roebling Raceway
04-01-2008, 08:41 AM
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The Camaro at Roebling Raceway
Well, I finally got a chance to put my car on the track and see what she and I could do! I did a two day driving event at Roebling Raceway (2 mile road course) in Savannah, GA and it was on of the best weekends I have had in a long time.
After getting a feel for the car on the first day and learning that you do not need to shift to 3rd on turn 1 (car wheel hoped and I spun out!) I really got the hang of it by day 2. My instructors were really impressed with how good of a line I was running (using the whole track) and even more impressed with the car. By the end of day 2 I was hitting the braking zone for turn 1 at 140mph and passing everyone on the track, including a C5 Z06! Yes, you heard right a Z06! I also passed an M3, a brand new Audi S4 (my buddies) and a ton of Cobra replica's. I am addicted!!!! Now on to the car.
The instructors could not believe that my car did not push and were incredibly impressed with how the car "set" and "rotated" in the corner. This was surprising to me because I am running some Hypercoil springs (high spring rate) and Bilstein shocks, which are essentially doing nothing on my car. I have numerous suspension mods that you can see in my signature and was running on a very new set of Firestone WideOval tires 285/45/17 on all four corners.
I did put the car on the scale and it weighed 3,394# with the spare tire, jack, and 3/4 tank of gas. The weight distribution was 56.6% front and 43.3% rear (car has no back seats or rear seat belts).
The car definitely needs a brake upgrade (cheap Autozone stuff) as it smelled like a "semi lost a clutch" when entering turn 1 according to my instructor, haha. I was going to upgrade the shocks to Koni adjustables and still may, but I am nervous now about upsetting the balance of the car. How do you think the shocks will effect the handling?
Thanks,
Eddie
After getting a feel for the car on the first day and learning that you do not need to shift to 3rd on turn 1 (car wheel hoped and I spun out!) I really got the hang of it by day 2. My instructors were really impressed with how good of a line I was running (using the whole track) and even more impressed with the car. By the end of day 2 I was hitting the braking zone for turn 1 at 140mph and passing everyone on the track, including a C5 Z06! Yes, you heard right a Z06! I also passed an M3, a brand new Audi S4 (my buddies) and a ton of Cobra replica's. I am addicted!!!! Now on to the car.
The instructors could not believe that my car did not push and were incredibly impressed with how the car "set" and "rotated" in the corner. This was surprising to me because I am running some Hypercoil springs (high spring rate) and Bilstein shocks, which are essentially doing nothing on my car. I have numerous suspension mods that you can see in my signature and was running on a very new set of Firestone WideOval tires 285/45/17 on all four corners.
I did put the car on the scale and it weighed 3,394# with the spare tire, jack, and 3/4 tank of gas. The weight distribution was 56.6% front and 43.3% rear (car has no back seats or rear seat belts).
The car definitely needs a brake upgrade (cheap Autozone stuff) as it smelled like a "semi lost a clutch" when entering turn 1 according to my instructor, haha. I was going to upgrade the shocks to Koni adjustables and still may, but I am nervous now about upsetting the balance of the car. How do you think the shocks will effect the handling?
Thanks,
Eddie
04-02-2008, 09:21 AM
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It sounds like you're hooked and Roebling is a very fun track. I wouldn't change you setup until you get some more seat time, pun intended.
Roebling is actually quite gentle on the brakes with turn 1 being the only "real" braking zone. I have LS1 brakes on my car and have run Hawk HP+ pads with great success. They are fine on the street except for the amount of dust they produce. I know Carbotech makes some good street / track pads but I don't have any personal experience with them. For the next event I would just make sure the fluid is freshly flushed and get some good front pads.
Check out www.frrax.com for a better source on all things F-body that carve corners.
Roebling is actually quite gentle on the brakes with turn 1 being the only "real" braking zone. I have LS1 brakes on my car and have run Hawk HP+ pads with great success. They are fine on the street except for the amount of dust they produce. I know Carbotech makes some good street / track pads but I don't have any personal experience with them. For the next event I would just make sure the fluid is freshly flushed and get some good front pads.
Check out www.frrax.com for a better source on all things F-body that carve corners.
04-02-2008, 12:06 PM
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It sounds like you know what you are talking about Jeff, as my instructor told me the same thing, good pads and new fluid. He recommended this Wilwood fluid that I cannot remember the name of but it was in a black bottle with a red cap and logo I think. Anyone know what it is?
Also, how many bottles are needed to flush the system?
Roebling is definitely easy on the brakes, except for turn 1 like you said and I am very thankful for that!
I still cannot believe how well the car handled with those shocks though. From everything I have read, shocks for a stock ride height car do not work on a lowered car. Especially when the springs are of a high spring rate, like my Hypercoils. That info just makes me wonder if changing the shocks wouldn't make the car that much better!
Also, how many bottles are needed to flush the system?
Roebling is definitely easy on the brakes, except for turn 1 like you said and I am very thankful for that!
I still cannot believe how well the car handled with those shocks though. From everything I have read, shocks for a stock ride height car do not work on a lowered car. Especially when the springs are of a high spring rate, like my Hypercoils. That info just makes me wonder if changing the shocks wouldn't make the car that much better!
04-02-2008, 12:50 PM
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I know it's tempting but don't change something just for the sake of changing it. When your driving catches up with the car then it's time to do some new mods.
04-02-2008, 04:02 PM
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Jeff, since you are familiar with the track and we are talking a little handling here, I thought I would share this.
The one corner that my car did not like at all was turn 3. I basically had to just rim-ride the inside of that corner and play with the throttle. When I ran it correctly (all the way to the right side rumble strip, brake, and turn in) the car was very unsettled. It felt like it was up on its tip toes and I had to feed a little right steer into it once or twice. It was the only time the car scared the instructor and we basically just gave up on that corner, electing to run it on the inside, which was fine and I still carried plenty of speed into turn 4 (one of the only other places you really brake on that track). Any idea why my car wouldn't like turn 3? In the words of my instructor, "the car is great everywhere else".
The one corner that my car did not like at all was turn 3. I basically had to just rim-ride the inside of that corner and play with the throttle. When I ran it correctly (all the way to the right side rumble strip, brake, and turn in) the car was very unsettled. It felt like it was up on its tip toes and I had to feed a little right steer into it once or twice. It was the only time the car scared the instructor and we basically just gave up on that corner, electing to run it on the inside, which was fine and I still carried plenty of speed into turn 4 (one of the only other places you really brake on that track). Any idea why my car wouldn't like turn 3? In the words of my instructor, "the car is great everywhere else".
04-02-2008, 04:19 PM
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I don't use my brakes coming into three so that may be the difference. I accelerate hard out of two and grab 4th gear. I steady state the throttle for a second in 4th and then turn in for three. In theory I could be on the throttle after I shift to 4th but then I would need to go on the brakes and I could see that unsettling the car. Next time you go just give it a try. Getting loose in three is a real butt pucker moment.
The last video I have uploaded from Roebling is from Jan. 2007. Here is a couple of laps.
Right click save as please.
http://www.musclecarsoforlando.100me...20Jan%2007.wmv
The last video I have uploaded from Roebling is from Jan. 2007. Here is a couple of laps.
Right click save as please.
http://www.musclecarsoforlando.100me...20Jan%2007.wmv
04-02-2008, 04:47 PM
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You are running turn 3 the way I did when the car was unsettled after a little touch of the brakes. It is hard to tell in the video, but it looks like I may have been carrying more speed off 2 than you (upper 80's to 90mph if I remember the data correctly). When I am running turn 3 closer to the bottom, I am doing so without ever touching the brakes, just lifting and then throttling the gas.
Do you know what your lap times are? I ran a 1:34 and a handful of 1:35 and 1:36 on the first day (TrackMate hooked up by my instructor) but we did not get to hook it up the second day because the people running the show said it was a big no no! I was running much faster times the second day, probably in the very low 1:30's they said and literally passing everyone! It was hard to get a full lap in without running up on someone. I get to run in the solo group next time, so that should be much less of a problem, haha! There were moded C6 Z06's in that group!!!
I run the entire track in 4th gear with the exception of shifting to 5th near the start finish line and then back to 4th when entering turn 1. It is possible to go to 3rd in turn 1, which I think you do, but it hurt me more than it helped I think as the car tended to wheel hop when going to 3rd there and spun me that one time!
Do you know what your lap times are? I ran a 1:34 and a handful of 1:35 and 1:36 on the first day (TrackMate hooked up by my instructor) but we did not get to hook it up the second day because the people running the show said it was a big no no! I was running much faster times the second day, probably in the very low 1:30's they said and literally passing everyone! It was hard to get a full lap in without running up on someone. I get to run in the solo group next time, so that should be much less of a problem, haha! There were moded C6 Z06's in that group!!!
I run the entire track in 4th gear with the exception of shifting to 5th near the start finish line and then back to 4th when entering turn 1. It is possible to go to 3rd in turn 1, which I think you do, but it hurt me more than it helped I think as the car tended to wheel hop when going to 3rd there and spun me that one time!
04-02-2008, 04:59 PM
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I found the brake fluid the instructor recommended:
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
How does it compare to the ATE Super Blue you recommended. Keep in the mind the car will be a weekend driver and occasional track car (hopefully fairly frequent track car!).
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
How does it compare to the ATE Super Blue you recommended. Keep in the mind the car will be a weekend driver and occasional track car (hopefully fairly frequent track car!).
04-03-2008, 07:34 AM
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Do you know what your lap times are? I ran a 1:34 and a handful of 1:35 and 1:36 on the first day (TrackMate hooked up by my instructor) but we did not get to hook it up the second day because the people running the show said it was a big no no! I was running much faster times the second day, probably in the very low 1:30's they said and literally passing everyone!
04-03-2008, 10:05 AM
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Damn buddy, you are certainly driving darn smooth then!!!!! That is a funny coincidence because one of the instructors told me a seasoned driver would be able to turn some laps in the 1:27 range in my car, haha. I'm dead serious!
What tires are you running? I never really heard any tire noise and mine were talking to me the whole time! My tires are pretty crappy for the track and are more of a daily driver tire. Atleast they are predictable.
What tires are you running? I never really heard any tire noise and mine were talking to me the whole time! My tires are pretty crappy for the track and are more of a daily driver tire. Atleast they are predictable.
04-03-2008, 10:37 AM
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04-03-2008, 01:59 PM
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How the hell do you fit 315's up front!!!! We need to meet up at an open track date so I can go to school!
Oh and "high five" for the way you ran turn 4 and 5, that is the same way the instructor had me run it. I think turn 4 and 5 are the most fun on that track. Especially 5 when it looks like you are going to drive straight off the track, then you stab the brakes, turn, get on the gas, and the car just rotates and drifts out to the rumble strips on the right, ahhh, awesome! I miss it already, haha.
Oh and "high five" for the way you ran turn 4 and 5, that is the same way the instructor had me run it. I think turn 4 and 5 are the most fun on that track. Especially 5 when it looks like you are going to drive straight off the track, then you stab the brakes, turn, get on the gas, and the car just rotates and drifts out to the rumble strips on the right, ahhh, awesome! I miss it already, haha.
04-03-2008, 11:35 PM
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Welcome to the club!! Yes, there is life beyond the 1/4 mile 
.
Damn, Jeff. Watching that video, I'm getting the itch to be back out on the track!!
However, my car is currently laid-up in the garage, repairing some minor damage from a major "off" at Mosport International Speedway (about ~1hr from Toronto, Ontario) last October. I'm also doing a full suspension over-haul .
ZZTop ... I know what you mean about the feeling of always catching upto and passing people!!
It's downright FASCINATING just how well these 4th-gen cars handle, to MANY peoples' surprise!! They may not be a C6 Z06, or a Porsche, or a fine-tuned BMW, but they really do hold their own. The power (esp. LS1) makes up for everything they lack in handling, but even the handling is NOT that bad!
ONE day on a road course was all it took for me to get hooked. It's great! I love it!! I'll probably never quit!!!!
And yes, R-comp's just bring you to a WHOLE NEW LEVEL!!
Yes, there is life beyond the 1/4 mile .Damn, Jeff. Watching that video, I'm getting the itch to be back out on the track!!
However, my car is currently laid-up in the garage, repairing some minor damage from a major "off" at Mosport International Speedway (about ~1hr from Toronto, Ontario) last October. I'm also doing a full suspension over-haul .ZZTop ... I know what you mean about the feeling of always catching upto and passing people!!
It's downright FASCINATING just how well these 4th-gen cars handle, to MANY peoples' surprise!! They may not be a C6 Z06, or a Porsche, or a fine-tuned BMW, but they really do hold their own. The power (esp. LS1) makes up for everything they lack in handling, but even the handling is NOT that bad!ONE day on a road course was all it took for me to get hooked
. It's great! I love it!! I'll probably never quit!!!! And yes, R-comp's just bring you to a WHOLE NEW LEVEL!!
04-07-2008, 10:42 AM
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The next time I'll be at Roebling is May 17th & 18th with NASA South East Region. Click here to check it out. I haven't run with NASA before but I wanted to go check out the American Iron and Camaro Mustang Challenge cars. NASA has races, time trials and HPDE groups all there at the same time. I'll be running in the HPDE3 group.
This post made me go back and pull out my video from last August. I was there this past January but didn't take any video. I thought I would be faster than the video I previously posted since I had done some more mods but I was about a second slower. It was very hot, high 90's, so everyone was saying that the track was slow but that's just a convenient excuse. I'll have to get some more video in May to see.
