What about this?


I am fairly familiar with why it's a PITA to run alcohol in a street engine, but I don't know enough about the subject to know if the same concerns apply to E85.

Would those of you who know something on the subject be kind enough to look at that website and then give me your thoughts?

 

Ethanol is grain alcohol. You can drink it but not the gasoline. There's already many ethanol blended gasolines. It oxygenates the fuel for more performance.

Alcohol used in racing is methanol, mythel hydrate, wood alcohol or whatever other name you want to call it but it's all the same. It's poisonous. The combustion fumes are formaldehyde which is also poisonous.

 

In looking for information regarding the question I asked, I came across this document, a graduate level thesis from a student at the university of Nebraska.

Quite honestly, some of the things in the document are over my head; but I thought that there was a good chance that some of you might find the information to be useful, or at the very least; interesting.

 

i will tell ya that here in cali they can put a % of e85 in the gas and we run it whether we like it or not, therere also deicated e85 pumps somewhere around here for ?commercial or city? cars that were trying it out.i havent seen one.
ford built a blown stang a few years back that had a dual fuel setup and made more power on ethanol, you might look into that, i think it was called super stallion.

 

There's a Promod car running pure ethanol. Ethanol isn't as hard on a fuel system as methanol is.

Like any alternate fuels, gasoline will still be cheaper. Until there's a very high demand for ethanol, the cost to produce it will still be higher than gasoline.

Propane is still a good alternative fuel. It burns clean so it produces less emissions. It's better for an engine because it goes in as a vapor, not as a liquid. There's no fuel pump, accellerator pump, choke. It's about 105 octane so a high compression engine will love it.

The only downsides are that the fuel tank is heavy and takes up more room than a gasoline tank. You're not supposed to park a propane powered vehicle inside garages or parkades but as far as I'm concerned, it's safer than a car with gas in the tank.

 

What I'm wondering here is; is E85 a practical fuel for a street motor? We know regular alcohol isn't, in spite of the fact that some guys do it anway.

 

is the "practical" definition including a pump near your house?
if you have to flush it like a methanol system after use, then my answer is no.

 

Ethanol blended fuels have been around for many years. If it was harmful to engines, it wouldn't be sold.

 

Stealth -

I'm talking about issues OTHER than locating fuel.


For instance, you point about flushing.
That's an excellent reason NOT to run alcohol fuel.
However, this E85 seems to be intended for roadgoing vehicles and the website actually lists a number of vehicles that can use it without modification. (and I mean NEW vehicles.)

This seems to imply that the 85/15 blending of Methanol/Gasoline eliminates one of the major issues with an alcohol fueled engine being used as a daily driver.

Obviously, supply is an issue, so it's currently only practical for either fleet vehicles or limited use "toys"; where the owner stocks their own fuel.
(I can buy 55 gallon drums just like anyone else.)


So in regards to the aspects OTHER than supply issues, I'm hoping that some of you can follow that link, do a little poking around and give me your thoughts on the use of E85 as a fuel for a street/strip car.

 

Yeah, I know. BUT... this isn't a 10-15% ethanol fuel. It's 85% Ethanol with 15% gasoline to denature it and make it practical for a street engine.


The fact that they have a whole list of new vehicles that can already run the E85 fuel right off the showroom floor leads me to beleive that this E85 fuel is practical in a way that traditional Methanol never will be.

No having to drive around with a squirt bottle of gasoline for instance.


It's just that I value the opinions of the people in this forum and I'd like to know what they think about this.

 

There is nothing "wrong" with E85 and it might be a good solution for the future, but most websites about it are by supporters so they can be misleading (especially in the area of cost).

Ethanol has less energy per volume so while E85 may be close to gas in price per gallon, you are going to use more gallons of E85 to go the same distance. A comparison of cost per mile is more important that cost per gallon. Most comparisons I have seen are not very scientific and are done by someone with an agenda.

Currently E85 prices are held low by government subsidies (to promote development). If E85 becomes the standard fuel for the entire country, there will not be government subsidies, but rather taxes to pay for our roads (like gas taxes now). It is hard to say what will happen to E85 prices when the subsidies go away and there is a huge demand (ie will the farmers be able to keep up with the corn demand?).

I like the idea of E85 because it is a fuel we can (mostly) produce on our own. But I don't know if it will make economical sense.

Dustin

 

Please understand that the context that I am looking at it in is for use as a fuel in a street/strip car, not daily transportation.


More than likely we have ALL considered converting our hot-rods to alcohol because of the ability to run high compression and/or lots of boost.

For most of us we have long since decided that the various inconveniences associated with running an alcohol motor, even on a race car; made it too unappealing a choice.

The question that 105 Octane E85 raises is; does this particular blend remove enough of the inconveniences that it might be worth reconsidering building an alcohol motor?

 

funnily enough i was helping my buddy at the digs last night and he runs his 528 on methanol [flying toilet setup]; i asked him if he wanted me to flush it when we were done and he said he never bothers, and has never had a problem with leaks or deteriorating hose/seals.
he does change the oil every week and runs a VP or Torco or some kind of methanol additive.

as far as the link, im out of town and dont have comp time to read it right now but ill check it out...

 

how long has this stuff been around, ive never heard of it

brook

 

I dunno. It's news to me too.
It must have been around at least a few years, because there are production vehicles designed to use it.