Promoting Swirl when porting heads????
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 505
From: Sweden
Hmmm
oct 2002 was the plan to buy 1.6 rockers and CAI and you see were i am now
. Nice to here that somone has somthing positiv or at least not negativ to say about them, but im not planing to take them of fore more porting right now, have been looking at superchargers insted
. But that depends on the dollar/swedish crown.
Buy the way the price was 420 dollars and that was for cleaning, valveseats job (Radius) and the porting. dont no what you pay for it in usa but here it was cheap from a well known shop.
can tell that only chipping the other things was 200 dollar and also the swedish custom add 28% to the total price of parts and shipping.
and the gas price is aroun 4.1 dollar/gallon
Thanks
oct 2002 was the plan to buy 1.6 rockers and CAI and you see were i am now
. Nice to here that somone has somthing positiv or at least not negativ to say about them, but im not planing to take them of fore more porting right now, have been looking at superchargers insted . But that depends on the dollar/swedish crown. Buy the way the price was 420 dollars and that was for cleaning, valveseats job (Radius) and the porting. dont no what you pay for it in usa but here it was cheap from a well known shop.
can tell that only chipping the other things was 200 dollar and also the swedish custom add 28% to the total price of parts and shipping.
and the gas price is aroun 4.1 dollar/gallon
Thanks
Last edited by Lisa33; May 12, 2003 at 02:15 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 440
From: Albuquerque,NM--5,600 feet above you sea-level cats
Yes, the heads seem to be doing fine. Maybe it was just a bad camra angle. Looks like you got a good deal on the head work, but your getting ripped at the gas pump. 4 bucks a gallon
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 520
From: MD
Lisa, I wouldn’t get too stressed. Most head porters that really know what they’re doing and tested stuff on a flow bench will tell you that you can get 95% of the improvement with just a rough cut and contouring things correctly. In most cases, the only reason that they go to the trouble to smooth things is that most customers expect it and don’t really want their business to be the subject of “what a crappy looking porting job” discussion. It’s easier to put a sanding roll in the die grinder, charge 2x as much and then be the subject of “look at this killer porting job” discussions even though the heads would end up making the same hp.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,462
From: smog zone adjacent to a great lake
If Lisa was born and raised in Sweden, I'd like to be able to speak/write Swedish (or any other language across the pond) half as good as her. BTW, gas prices in Europe, (and I believe Scandinavian countries are similar) last I was aware, are CHEAPER than here in the states. It is the taxes their governments impose on each gallon that drains the pocket.
OK, to make this post legit, I am now unable to go 'against the grain' of the last 3 guys.
OK, to make this post legit, I am now unable to go 'against the grain' of the last 3 guys.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 505
From: Sweden
Thanks everyone for the replays.
Sould start a new three in LT1 tech about the airflow g/s, are a little curios about that, About writing across the globe, you can do that in english most of the people in europe could give you an answer but maybe not if its tech terms, about speaking yeeaa you should have heard my phonecall to summit after they sent me the wrong parts, i got upset when the guy in the other end didnt understand what the problem was (dont think he no anything about engins) think you have laught you to death
God to have a digital camera and e-mail that time
the guy that recived that mail was service minded, he send the right part direct.
About th gas price, you are right there, its the taxes that makes the high price, and the same with every penny you earn, the goverment take 35-55% apending how much you earn.
Ws6 TA, you maby onto something there, But i must say that i wasnt impressed when i saw the heads, but as i wrote the guy has a god reputation and now what hes doing. see http://www.grottisheadservice.com/ (click at bild arkiv) so its hard to argue against that and yes there is more to take away in mine lt1 heads, but i dont know how much i could gain and how much more i have to spend to get the job done.
So when i sugested to ImportsRsloths to take a look at my pics it wasnt in the meaning to show him a perfect job only tried to give him inputs, how it can be done. Dont think an amateur should try to do a max port job,to risky.
Thanks
Sould start a new three in LT1 tech about the airflow g/s, are a little curios about that, About writing across the globe, you can do that in english most of the people in europe could give you an answer but maybe not if its tech terms, about speaking yeeaa you should have heard my phonecall to summit after they sent me the wrong parts, i got upset when the guy in the other end didnt understand what the problem was (dont think he no anything about engins) think you have laught you to death
God to have a digital camera and e-mail that time
the guy that recived that mail was service minded, he send the right part direct.
About th gas price, you are right there, its the taxes that makes the high price, and the same with every penny you earn, the goverment take 35-55% apending how much you earn.
Ws6 TA, you maby onto something there, But i must say that i wasnt impressed when i saw the heads, but as i wrote the guy has a god reputation and now what hes doing. see http://www.grottisheadservice.com/ (click at bild arkiv) so its hard to argue against that and yes there is more to take away in mine lt1 heads, but i dont know how much i could gain and how much more i have to spend to get the job done.
So when i sugested to ImportsRsloths to take a look at my pics it wasnt in the meaning to show him a perfect job only tried to give him inputs, how it can be done. Dont think an amateur should try to do a max port job,to risky.
Thanks
Last edited by Lisa33; May 13, 2003 at 01:18 AM.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 752
Originally posted by Lisa33
Dont know whats the best. But if you look at http://home.koping.net/u3243a/Topparna.htm
you could see my lt1 heads ported by a pro but not max ported, the reason for that was that he ment that its not worth the cost to do a full job on the orginal castings.
This job was most hp/money acourding to him.
Any coments on the job?
Dont know whats the best. But if you look at http://home.koping.net/u3243a/Topparna.htm
you could see my lt1 heads ported by a pro but not max ported, the reason for that was that he ment that its not worth the cost to do a full job on the orginal castings.
This job was most hp/money acourding to him.
Any coments on the job?
ouch those heads are horrific! IT doesnt look like he hardly even touched them! these are what the exhaust ports on my LT1 castings look like after my engine builder did some port work to them
http://www.clanulf.com/tazcar/gallery/chamber.JPG
http://www.clanulf.com/tazcar/gallery/export3.JPG
this is what the exhaust should look like. If hes ported heads for 30 years he either still sucks or just didnt wantto do the work.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 505
From: Sweden
Nice job there dont whant to think what i would have to pay for that.
Just courius how much (if nothing) you shorten the life of the valve steerer (dont no what you call the "tube") when they are that short.
Just courius how much (if nothing) you shorten the life of the valve steerer (dont no what you call the "tube") when they are that short.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 752
Originally posted by Lisa33
Nice job there dont whant to think what i would have to pay for that.
Just courius how much (if nothing) you shorten the life of the valve steerer (dont no what you call the "tube") when they are that short.
Nice job there dont whant to think what i would have to pay for that.
Just courius how much (if nothing) you shorten the life of the valve steerer (dont no what you call the "tube") when they are that short.
as far as cost.....well there was a total of 40 hours of work. At $50 per hour thats about $2000. However hes a good friend of mine and is helping me out. I would not recomend spending that kind of money of a set of LT1 castings. If your gonan spend the money but some AFR heads
Ill see if i can find some snapshots of my intake side. I think they are still on my digital camera which is still at the shop. Ill try adn get them up soom so yo ucan see
Last edited by TriPinTaZ; May 15, 2003 at 04:50 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 520
From: MD
FWIW, a polished exhaust port does not make for a killer port job. For that matter, ports polished that much will buy you very little over the rough cut ports in Lisa’s pics, in some applications intake ports done like that will actually work worse. You will see some improvement in a turbocharged application, but not due to increased flow, but because of decreased heat transfer.
WRT to the actual shaping, you really can’t tell from pictures (well, someone that’s been doing it for years might be able to), for example, roughly a 1/32” difference in one end of the intake port could be the difference between a port that moves air well and works well with a proper intake runner and one that does not.
There’s a few different trains of thought on the valve guides. Cutting them like that doesn’t hurt durablilty wrt to supporting the valve, but I’ve heard of more then a few people having problems with abnormal wear because of a tendency for deposits getting into it. Seems like most people get best flow by shaping the area around the guide to direct air around the valve stem, rather then cutting them all the way down.
Funny thing is that you could spend a couple of hours with some sanding rolls, and shine up some castings and sell them for $2K and most customers would never even think twice that they might have gotten a crappy porting job (no, I’m not implying that’s what your buddy did, but I am saying that there is a lot more to porting then making it look nice).
WRT to the actual shaping, you really can’t tell from pictures (well, someone that’s been doing it for years might be able to), for example, roughly a 1/32” difference in one end of the intake port could be the difference between a port that moves air well and works well with a proper intake runner and one that does not.
There’s a few different trains of thought on the valve guides. Cutting them like that doesn’t hurt durablilty wrt to supporting the valve, but I’ve heard of more then a few people having problems with abnormal wear because of a tendency for deposits getting into it. Seems like most people get best flow by shaping the area around the guide to direct air around the valve stem, rather then cutting them all the way down.
Funny thing is that you could spend a couple of hours with some sanding rolls, and shine up some castings and sell them for $2K and most customers would never even think twice that they might have gotten a crappy porting job (no, I’m not implying that’s what your buddy did, but I am saying that there is a lot more to porting then making it look nice).
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 146
From: Amelia, OH
well making them look nice is a good start!!!! not many newbie port jobs can say that!
I would love to see him back up the heads with a flow chart
I bet they flow impressive numbers..... they should though... they cost him like $2,000!!!!
I would love to see him back up the heads with a flow chart
I bet they flow impressive numbers..... they should though... they cost him like $2,000!!!!
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 752
Originally posted by WS6 TA
FWIW, a polished exhaust port does not make for a killer port job. For that matter, ports polished that much will buy you very little over the rough cut ports in Lisa’s pics, in some applications intake ports done like that will actually work worse. You will see some improvement in a turbocharged application, but not due to increased flow, but because of decreased heat transfer.
WRT to the actual shaping, you really can’t tell from pictures (well, someone that’s been doing it for years might be able to), for example, roughly a 1/32” difference in one end of the intake port could be the difference between a port that moves air well and works well with a proper intake runner and one that does not.
There’s a few different trains of thought on the valve guides. Cutting them like that doesn’t hurt durablilty wrt to supporting the valve, but I’ve heard of more then a few people having problems with abnormal wear because of a tendency for deposits getting into it. Seems like most people get best flow by shaping the area around the guide to direct air around the valve stem, rather then cutting them all the way down.
Funny thing is that you could spend a couple of hours with some sanding rolls, and shine up some castings and sell them for $2K and most customers would never even think twice that they might have gotten a crappy porting job (no, I’m not implying that’s what your buddy did, but I am saying that there is a lot more to porting then making it look nice).
FWIW, a polished exhaust port does not make for a killer port job. For that matter, ports polished that much will buy you very little over the rough cut ports in Lisa’s pics, in some applications intake ports done like that will actually work worse. You will see some improvement in a turbocharged application, but not due to increased flow, but because of decreased heat transfer.
WRT to the actual shaping, you really can’t tell from pictures (well, someone that’s been doing it for years might be able to), for example, roughly a 1/32” difference in one end of the intake port could be the difference between a port that moves air well and works well with a proper intake runner and one that does not.
There’s a few different trains of thought on the valve guides. Cutting them like that doesn’t hurt durablilty wrt to supporting the valve, but I’ve heard of more then a few people having problems with abnormal wear because of a tendency for deposits getting into it. Seems like most people get best flow by shaping the area around the guide to direct air around the valve stem, rather then cutting them all the way down.
Funny thing is that you could spend a couple of hours with some sanding rolls, and shine up some castings and sell them for $2K and most customers would never even think twice that they might have gotten a crappy porting job (no, I’m not implying that’s what your buddy did, but I am saying that there is a lot more to porting then making it look nice).
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 520
From: MD
Originally posted by TriPinTaZ
Altho Im sure you are trying to help with your opinion. We have flow bench tested them at each stage and found this to be the best way to get the MAX numbers from the Heads. And the intake side is not polioshed like the exhaust side. Now with all your knowledge dont you know that the reason for polishing the exhaust side is to significantly reduce carbon deposits which hurts flow? Ahhhhhhhh might wanan check the exhaust ports in your 83 crossfire injection there buddy
Altho Im sure you are trying to help with your opinion. We have flow bench tested them at each stage and found this to be the best way to get the MAX numbers from the Heads. And the intake side is not polioshed like the exhaust side. Now with all your knowledge dont you know that the reason for polishing the exhaust side is to significantly reduce carbon deposits which hurts flow? Ahhhhhhhh might wanan check the exhaust ports in your 83 crossfire injection there buddy
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 752
Originally posted by ImportsRsloths
haha, give him a break..... i bet his beast is AT LEAST breaking 15's.....
lol
BTW, still need pics and flow numbers!!!!
haha, give him a break..... i bet his beast is AT LEAST breaking 15's.....
lolBTW, still need pics and flow numbers!!!!
Flow numbers are as follows.
Intake @
.100 74
.200 142
.300 202
.400 251
.500 276
.600 281
Exhaust @
.100 57
.200 128
.300 162
.400 194
.500 205
.600 211
These were just finished last week. My engine builder did some major work on these heads. His time sheet shows almost 50 hours of time in them.
And as yo uwished here are the pics that were on my digital camera, I added some before pictures as well so you can geta stock vs finished job difference.
http://www.clanulf.com/tazcar/galler...shedintake.JPG
http://www.clanulf.com/tazcar/galler...hedintake2.JPG
http://www.clanulf.com/tazcar/gallery/stock1.JPG
http://www.clanulf.com/tazcar/gallery/stock2.JPG
http://www.clanulf.com/tazcar/gallery/stockchamber.JPG
http://www.clanulf.com/tazcar/gallery/stockex.JPG
http://www.clanulf.com/tazcar/gallery/upcloseintake.JPG
Heres my camshaft that came in today.... Funky looking isnt it?
Gotta love them solid rollers !
http://www.clanulf.com/tazcar/gallery/funkycam2.JPG
Enjoy
Last edited by TriPinTaZ; May 16, 2003 at 11:52 PM.