Ok guys…. This should be an easy for you pro’s.

Thinking about buying a set of Trick Flow heads but would like to know about reducing the 62cc chamber down to 55-56 cc? I understand with a half way decent port job it’s not that hard to get 290 – 295 cfm up on top and 240 cfm @ .400, but I want my compression too! How much needs to be milled off the heads and will the intake have to be milled to compensate? If so, how much should be taken off the intake and where should it be milled?

Another easy one for you hardcore gearheads….

The Trick Flows start out @ 195cc intake runners, but how far can they be hogged out? What final intake runner cc is typical from a good port job on these heads?

The maybe not so easy question…….

There has been a whole lot of discussion regarding coatings on this list, but with no objective dyno numbers regarding the type of cars WE drive. I could frankly care about 500ci, 9500 rpm Pro Stockers….. I’m interested for myself, not Greg Anderson! On an LT engine making about 450-460rwhp, what could you reasonable expect to gain from coating the valves and combustion chambers?

I also understand it’s a good idea to do the exhaust ports and bottom of the intake while your at it. Again….. how much real world power is there to be gained and how much does it cost to have the coating performed??

Inquiring minds want to know.

Denny, try this thread:

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=305775

IMO, coatings for a street car engine isn't the place to spend your money. Get the "Stage 3" porting on the TFS heads instead.

Just my $.02

High 50's for chamber volume is about all you are going to get out of a TFS head more than that and you start getting into the valve seat.

300cfm and 250ish @ .400 for those castings. They will work out well for a 383 since you can get the cross sectional area that is right for a 383 then.

www.swaintech.com is the place to look for coating.

Bret

Here is the reply I got from TFS on milling the heads to 55cc

Ellis,
We can deck the heads for you, That is not a problem. The cost is $125.00...

Give me a call at the number listed below as this will be a custom order. We
do have the heads in stock, So there will not be a long wait...

Thanks Guys! This list really by far is the sharpest!! I quite honestly don't even bother with any others.

No one mentioned machining the intake to compensate. Does it need to be touched?? Or is it not enough of a difference that it effects the bolt holes or block in the front and in the back?

Also on the 300 cfm on top and 250 cfm @ .400..... is that with the 2.02 valves?? Or is it with larger valves?

Denny

Thanks to the numerous number of vendors whom seem to stretch things just a little (like a lot in ARE’s case….like a Whole Lot) I’m always skeptical when I hears miracle claims from anything.

Surprised to see no one on this list has actually hp numbers to support or unsupport the coating claims in real world cars. Guess I’ve been the test rocket monkey shot into space a few too many times to never return that I let someone else do the dirty work… Whoop, I mean be the hero these days.

i've Dyno tested a a few engines that had various coating on piston tops and combustion chambers/valve heads..but never back-to-back tests to see the exact change in HP/TQ the coatings made !

execpt in just 1 case => a NHRA SuperStock Chevy SBC that only had the piston tops coated .

this engine had been on my Dyno many times , and many times in very different weather conditions, as long as they were no parts or tuning changes between Dyno days, this engine would repeat the "Average" HP & TQ numbers to within better than 1 HP accuracy on my Dyno any time of year

after he had piston tops coated, from that moment on, this SBC engine made a solid 4 average HP more..not a lot of gain, but if you've tried everything else and have a lot of extra money, it might be worth it ?

as for another comparison... i could easily just about get you more than 10 times the HP/TQ gains from Porting your heads than you could hope for in coating various engine parts
-------------------------------------

on the maching part..you're machinist/head porter should know exactly how much to correct or mill off the intake sides for proper Intake Manifold fit !

should Angle-mill heads, then correct mill Intake sides back

If you angle mill a set of LT1 heads the intake has to be re-spot faced to accomidate the different angle. That's all.

55cc out of a non ported TFS head would be about where you could go, once the chambers are done with the porting then it adds cc's and so you can't get them as small.

A 2.055" valve is as big as you can go on a stock seat in a TFS, to get any bigger you have to go to a set of interlocked seats, and at that point you are the same price as a AFR 210 casting. No point in going smaller valves than that on a TFS head IMHO you gotta buy valves for the heads anyways.

As for coatings...... They help in real world situations not really in completely cooled off dyno runs. They are a added expense and my favortie application is on piston tops in blower cars to protect the pistons from detonation.

Bret

Just to specify.

I was quoting the TFS mail to show a starting point Like Brett has said. I have just found it is easier to start with a head that is cut to my specs to start with. That way I am not out the money to have it done a second time

I am looking at buying a bare set and having them ported and filled with the parts I like

Again, thanks guys!

Humm.... I noticed a little while ago AFR has lowered their prices. Not sure about the back order time, if it's gotten any better or not.

I may need to rethink this head thing a little as by the time I have the Trick Flow's bumped up, I may be in AFR 210 price range. I still think the AFR's 210's may flow just a bit better.

FYI - Happen to bump into one of the AFR factory reps at the Fun Ford in Dallas and he said they were revising their entire line of SB Chevy heads.

Said they felt the heat of the competition and it was time to bump up a notch. Said the 180 cc heads had already been done but it would be another 9 months before they got to the 210's. Believe he said you could expect a 6-10 cfm improvement.

Here we go again...... decisions, decisions, decisions!

well the AFR rep I got mail from did not want to sell me any 210s ....

Starting with a AFR 210, porting it throwing valves in it and then setting it up with the right springs for a certain application usually produces better results at the same price than going with a off the shelf AFR. AFR can bump up those flow numbers some, but it's still the combination matched to the car and the motor that makes it fast.

Bret

Listen to the man.

"well the AFR rep I got mail from did not want to sell me any 210s ...."

That's interesting.......... Did the rep indicate why??

Also on the coating issue....... Again, until someone can come up with objective dyno or et information saying it's worthwhile..... Thanks, but no thanks. I was hoping someone by now had actually did some dyno testing adn could prove the gains. This in itself may speak volumes.

I would personally like to see some legitimate 300cfm standard port style SBC 23 degree heads that aren't bigger than 210cc's. I had the $hit hogged out of my AFR 195's (205cc final port volume) and they flow 280cfm at .6 lift. Unless Trickflow had radically altered the port geometry, I think 280-290cfm is more reasonable. I don't doubt that it CAN be done, I've just never personally seen it.