What engines will prove the suprises and what kind of hp #s do you think we will see?

To make this more Adv., is there an advantage to using a solid flat cam over a hydro roller? I have noticed that with the small block version those were the two choices that people made. Wouldn't the best be a solid roller? Also, how streetable are these engines? I see them using huge duration #s on the bb engines. I always thought that you want to use the best flowing heads with the best cam to make the best power. It looks like some of the guys are using the biggest cam they can find.

 

I think you might see something surprising from the oldsmobile team this year.

 

Thoughts:

EM 2002, the original 366 cube small block competition allowed hydraulic rollers, but outlawed solid rollers. I don't think any entrant used flat lifters.

EM 2003, the 470 cube big block one, outlawed all roller cams. Large duration is about the only way to get high lifts (and area under the lift curve) with flat lifters, especially with the small Chevy diameter lifter. I believe all entrants use solid flats.

EM 2004, the 410 cube small blocks, flats, hydraulic and solid rollers are allowed. My prediction is lots of soild rollers and again no flats.

EM scoring is average torque plus average hp (or area under the curves) from 2500 to 6500 rpm. IMO, the flat lifter BBC rule made that difficult to get a flat torque curve, and placed more emphasis on the higher rpm numbers. (BBC ran 3000-6500 because dynos had trouble holding the torque at 2500).

Some of the EM 2002 366 cube small blocks were very streetable. I saw 900 rpm idles with no lope, and tremendous torque from 2500 to the 5000 torque peaks in the low/mid 500s. There were also others that would barely sustain WOT at 2500, probably due to too much overlap and or too much carb.

As far as estimating max hp for 2004 (remembering that average is how it's scored, not max) just getting the same hp/cube on the 410s as Joe Sherman did on his 366 (603 hp) would give 675 hp. With solid rollers allowed, I think that's possible. You might even see 600 ft-lb of torque.

I'd like to see an Olds do well. The diesel block is allowed, and there are some fairly good heads now available.

Now if you are really interested in predicting, there will also be a Virtual EM contest, where anyone can use special Dyno Sim software and submit an entry. The Virtual entry that comes closest to matching the real winner will get a big prize. $10Gs, if I remember correctly. Now that should be fun! Look for it in Pop Rod. It was a go as of PRI show earlier this month.

Bottom line is that you have to match everything in the system to get the most torque and power in the rpm range you plan to operate. This of course applies to any racing engine design, but to the extreme in an Engine Masters competition.

My $.02

 

The sad thing is that all of the builders will be entered in the virtual competiton too so we are probably going to be close on that, well at least I know Old SStroker is going to be close on my motor.


BTW, I don't advertise here but I am looking for a home for the old 365 and a sponsor/owner for the new 409 SBC. If anyone is interested in being part of the build up and getting a sweat deal on a 700hp streetable SBC for their car then shoot me a e-mail. By sweet deal I mean big cost savings on the parts and all of our work for free, plus it's going to be dyno tuned to within a inch of it's life. My guess on the motor is around $15K, but considering it's going to be on par with Jimlabs motor in the HP department and he spent $35K that's not a bad deal.

Bret

 

heh...

You guys better hope Andy Miller doesn't decide to enter a DX oldsmobile with the new heads he's been working with.

 

That's what they said about the Caddy Bulldog heads last year. Didn't see a Caddy in the top ten. The Buicks, Olds and Pontiacs did slightly better than I thought they would do but still didn't take home any money.

Not knocking the heads, but they have to be legal for the contest before anyone can even worry about them.

Seriously, there is 50 years of development work in the 23 deg SBC head, and there are about 5 excellent choices for this contest.

SBF, SBM and SBC are really the motors to beat. The DX is a interesting setup and you can overbore the snot out of them, but it's really not at an advantage over those motors.

Either way there are going to be some in the contest so it will be good to see.

Bret

 

There has been a lot happeneing there, and there should be at LEAST two news heads out this year that will be legal for competition.

That guy I mentioned does like to use the DX block.

I recall he used to run a 3200 olds with a 400+ inch DX motor and BB heads.
He would twist that sucker to over 9000rpm and the car ran best times of 9.01 & 149mph.

If he decided to enter the competition with either the new Bulldogs, the Rocket Racing heads, or this other new "mystery" head I've been hearing about, you'd see some REAL interesting things at the challenge.

 

Here, Tim Davis used a solid flat in his engine and made it in the top 5, unless it was a missprint, and I know that Sherman used a roller cam.

 

Oops! You are correct. I missed that.

I think Tim will be in EM 2004.

 

Do you think there is a reason that he used the solid flat over a roller cam? How do the ramp rates of a solid flat compare to a hydro roller?

 

Mostly because there are not any Hyd Roller lifters for the old school 360 blocks. Maybe one of the new Magnum 360 blocks would work, but then that screws everything else up.

Flat tappet lobes are much less aggressive vs roller lobes. For a given amount of duration the roller lobe will have more area than a flat lobe will.

Bret

 

Screws everything else up? What is that suppose to mean?

 

Not a Mopar guy here but I think that the Magnum block and parts is a lot like the SBC compared to the LT1. Same but different.

Bret

 

If Oldsmobile motors made any kind of power they would still be making them. The blocks and cranks weigh a ton and the heads breathe like a 90 year old coal miner. A bowtie will win hands down.

 

New in town, Sailor?

Don't hold back, tell us what you think.

You don't think the 23 degree valve angle will handicap the bowties compared to the other brands?

The Olds guys I know like being told their motors won't work...then they prove folks wrong.