if a donation needs to be made... i am willing for it.

 

Yes, yes I would run a ford motor in my camaro. I'm assuming we are talking about the ~700hp N/A motors that result from these competitions.

That is a great idea. Of course, then I would spend all my money in hopes of winning a $50,000 motor.

 

I concur. I think the raffle idea is the way to go. Say $5.00 for each ticket. It would have to be someone well known in the business with a lot of contacts to be able to "cut in line".

 

Well old man and I were talking about it at the shop...

1. Would probably run a pole on the donations/raffel to see what the ticket price would be. Lower the cost more tickets needed, but put a cap on it.

2. Start off with pledges rather than collecting money and have a 3rd party like a accountant work that all out.

3. All the money in the raffel would be put towards the motor AND any reserves go to the winner.

4. We might have extra parts here that don't get used on the motor, but they could be part of the raffle as well. Most likely parts for trying different heads, intakes, cams etc....

5. Anyone who is being paid for their work on the project OR is related to them cannont buy tickets. So if I was working on it I can't buy tickets, reguardless if I get paid for my time or not. Getting to work on this should be worth enough thru the experience OR the money you get paid to do your work.

6. The spending would be determined by the project manager, for what you would need for what parts. Obviously with a set budget you still need to spend it on the RIGHT things. Plus there are lots of deals given by the manufactures who sponsor the contest to the contestants so that would help.

7. Prize money.... that's the big IF, but if that happens then it's probably split between the board administrators and the people working on the project, which would amount to a number of guys most likely. The people in the raffle would get prizes from the raffle like the motor or parts and the winnings if there were some would be external to that.

I think we need to see what the rules are going to be. This could work out well if a SBC or LT1 fits into the rules competitively. Lord knows a Cleveland is a cool deal but I'd be more likely to put a LT1 or LS1 in a 4th Gen and pay for that ticket rather than a Cleveland, and I'm a goofy engine guy who could actually pull that one off!!!

There is a lot of things to work out here, but it's a cool idea to build a CZ28.com motor and have it end up in one of the members hands!

Bret

 

Thank You, the experience does give me some idea what to do, but I would still need help in other areas that i'm sure other guys on here could help me with.

I agree, it would have to be a panel that decides on things. In the end all the ideas come down to whoever leads that, because the motor is a system and it has to work well together. From what I thought about the designer should probably be the assembler of the motor, but tuners, head porters, block machining etc.... all need to be done as well.

I agree the R&D is the hardest part.

Good idea, I have some ways where we could impliment that within the rules but it's WAY outside of the box and i'm not talking about it on here

Bret

 

Can I donate enough to be let in on all the engine building secrets that get passed around your shop?

 

How can we talk about our ideas and not have them on the public forum?

Is it ok to PM each other, phone calls, E-Mail - other?

I have friends that are cam designers that can make special cams just for this application. Through 10 years at Reed Cams I have a lot of contacts, I could ask Dave Crower to do some stuff but they compete in the contest. However so long as he doesn't know that I'm connected to the project???

My biggest concern is the intake manifold and the entire exhaust system.

Can they specify any particular brand of engine, what if it turns out that a MOPAR is the best choice?? If its an OLDS I don't have any problem there because "Doctor OLD's" is a personal friend. Most of the stuff I use to configure engine combinations is generic, but each engine has its own characteristics that need to be addressed.

Speaking of the LS-X stuff I'm going to be on a project to do some development on the LS-7 heads, if that goes through we'll be on the cutting edge of it.

3 things can reduce the hard-dyno time research 1) Wet-Flow testing 2) Math programs like I spoke about with the short block dynamics. 3) Dry flow-testing with the head on a block and a piston in the hole, to check the flow across the chamber/piston configuration, (the cam has to in there too).

Denny

 

HeadDoctor & Bret - you guys going to be at PRI?

 

PM, or e-mail would work now.

I'd love to hear what other guys have for ideas on the cams. The cam can be designed afterwards which is how guys do it, or can be a part of the system. Different heads, intakes, exhausts, carbs all can change what we can do there. Dave might not be the best since they are usually doing another motor, but I'm sure there are other guys to ask. In our first year we had my cam design and another one and mine worked with the combo the best. Bischoffs BBC teardown was interesting especially in the cam area, that thing was advanced 6° and he wanted more since obviously the motor wanted more in there.... which says some things to me about the amount of duration in there. That's suprising since there are smaller lobes in the series that he used.... that's why it's all a good comprimise with everything else in there.

The intake would have lots of work in it and we would probably try a few worked examples for this. I know the first year I had two and one had lots of epoxy in it and it worked like a champ. Along with carbs, I would expect no more than 3 different carbs to test to see what works the best.

Exhaust system is usually a lot of dyno testing as well. Different headers, collectors, mufflers etc....

IF they let the LS in I don't know if the LS7 will be in the mix but you never know. The L92's would probably work well in this as well with lots of work. I know my street 365 cube LS2 with these heads will probably do better than my 365 cube EMC motor in terms of EMC score and total output with roughly the same cam.

As for your 3 areas.... I agree. I did about 2 months of computer work on the first motor, and that almost never ends even after dyno testing looking for things to try to improve that combination.

Right now figuring out IF and HOW to pull this off is more important than the design since we have no rules to design around.

Bret

 

Yep Old man and I will both be.

Bret

 

I'm going to try and get down this year, because I haven't been in a while, need to find a central place to hang out.

Denny

 

Maybe I'll have to get down there this year. I'd love to meet you guys.

Jeremy

 

I'm in and I have to say that the best part of the show is the people, you always see new things but the people make it worthwhile.

Bret

 

I will be spending a quite a bit of time in machinery row because we are upgrading some equipment this year, but we should make sure to meet up at some point during or after the show. I will be there from Wednesday night until Saturday night.

You going to the sprint race? We build parts for those, so I'm pretty sure we are going to that too.