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Cryogenics for block strength??

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Old Sep 15, 2005 | 09:55 PM
  #16  
n20ta2's Avatar
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From: Bradenton Fl
Re: Cryogenics for block strength??

I was thinking about it last night and im not going to chance wasting all my machine work for a "maybe it will help".freezing and then re-heating to 600 degrees has got to reek havoc on the cylinder bores in a cast block. How much Hp do you think my 400 block will handle? Like I mentioned above it has a tall hardblock pour,4 bolt splayed moroso conversion, the deck surface steam holes were plugged and the decks water passages were tapped and restricted Its also using a lower end girdle. It should make in the area of 750-800 hp n/a with possibly a 200 shot on top of that.Its a 420 ci stroke with 14:1 comp ratio its using cnc ported Dart pro1 heads jesel shaft mount drive train a super victor and a 1000cfm dominator.
Old Sep 15, 2005 | 10:09 PM
  #17  
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Re: Cryogenics for block strength??

Originally Posted by number77
I'm guessing it means I'm out of place, because I know I am. But back on topic, Beryllium is really stiff, so are there any Beryllium alloys out there being used (probably combined with aluminum/nickel/copper) for any parts of the engine?

Beryllium (Be) is outlawed in almost every racing organization. It's dangerous to work with and very costly, even for F1. However it makes great parts.

On a more personal note, 77, you never cease to surprise me.
Old Sep 16, 2005 | 02:24 AM
  #18  
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Re: Cryogenics for block strength??

Originally Posted by number77
But back on topic, Beryllium is really stiff, so are there any Beryllium alloys out there being used (probably combined with aluminum/nickel/copper) for any parts of the engine?
Valve seats
Old Sep 16, 2005 | 07:05 AM
  #19  
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Re: Cryogenics for block strength??

Originally Posted by MachinistOne
Valve seats
Be-Cu or Beryllium-Copper alloy valve seats are used/recommended for use with titanium valves. The alloys are only about 2% Be.

Here's a quote from Del West Engineering:


"Chris Haumont of Del West Engineering, Valencia, CA, says his company sells two different beryllium copper alloys. The "Alloy 25" is for titanium intake valves while the "Alloy 3" is for exhaust valves. Why two different alloys? Haumont says Alloy 3 transfers more heat and provides better cooling for the exhaust valve. But the Alloy 3 is too soft for intake valves so there is a harder Alloy 25 for the intake valves.

"When titanium valves were first introduced years ago, many people were running tool steel or induction hardened seats with a hardness of around 60 Rockwell C. These proved to be too hard for titanium valves, so many racers started using softer ductile or nodular iron seats with a hardness of around 32 Rockwell C.

"Titanium valves are harder to cool than stainless steel valves, so we looked at a variety of materials to see if we could find something that would provide increased cooling, especially for the exhaust valve. Initially, we tried a beryllium copper exhaust seat with nodular iron intake seats. But the slight difference in expansion rates between the beryllium copper and iron seats created a cracking problem in the head. Using beryllium copper for both seats solved the cracking problem, but we also learned that the alloy we were using for the exhaust side didn't work as well on the intake side. As a result, we came up with different beryllium copper alloys for the intake and exhaust seats."

Haumont says his company's beryllium copper Alloy 25 is 97 percent copper with 1.8 to 2.0 percent beryllium, and has a hardness of 38 to 41 Rockwell C. The Alloy 3, by comparison, is 98 percent copper, contains less beryllium (0.2 to 0.6 percent) but adds nickel (1.4 to 2.2 percent), and has a hardness of 95 to 102 Rockwell B (roughly 20 on the Rockwell C scale). By comparison, ductile iron seats typically have a hardness of around 32 Rockwell C.

"Beryllium copper works great in a racing engine with titanium valves, but there is no advantage to using beryllium copper with steel valves because you don't really need the extra cooling. Beryllium copper seats would also require more maintenance in a street engine than ductile iron seats," says Haumont."
Old Sep 16, 2005 | 07:57 AM
  #20  
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Re: Cryogenics for block strength??

Originally Posted by OldSStroker
Beryllium (Be) is outlawed in almost every racing organization. It's dangerous to work with and very costly, even for F1. However it makes great parts.

On a more personal note, 77, you never cease to surprise me.
Thanks for the compliment, but I have just one more question (thats a bit off topic). When you machine parts, does the direction of the part while you machine it matter much? Like the grain in wood would for trying to karate chop a board?
Old Sep 16, 2005 | 11:00 AM
  #21  
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Re: Cryogenics for block strength??

Originally Posted by number77
Thanks for the compliment, but I have just one more question (thats a bit off topic). When you machine parts, does the direction of the part while you machine it matter much? Like the grain in wood would for trying to karate chop a board?
Lots of things surprise me 77: hurricanes, tsunamis, the way some folks throw engines together, some tattoos, most politicians, and some of your ideas. Take that any way you like.

Generally the grain structure in metal is microscopic so it doesn't have much effect on machining direction . There are minor exceptions.

Grain size, orientation, elongaton, etc. can effect the strength of a metal, but not nearly so much as in wood. Cast metal especially has no grain direction, flow, etc. unless it has something else do to it. Some cast aluminum suspension parts are forged after casting to increase strength. Heat treating can also alter grain size, but not generally orientation.
Old Nov 21, 2005 | 12:15 AM
  #22  
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From: college station / houston
Re: Cryogenics for block strength??

herer you can do it yourself

http://www.sell.com/221H9V

brook
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