Crank Selection
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 92
Originally posted by rskrause
Yes, it's NA. But definitely not a street motor.
I get fasteners and that sort of stuff at my local NAPA. If they don't have what I need, there's a big industrial supply house, but they prefer not to sell less than 100 units, so I try not to bother them unless they are the last resort.
Rich Krause
Yes, it's NA. But definitely not a street motor.
I get fasteners and that sort of stuff at my local NAPA. If they don't have what I need, there's a big industrial supply house, but they prefer not to sell less than 100 units, so I try not to bother them unless they are the last resort.
Rich Krause
I still feel that 600hp N/A on pump gas isn't too far out of reach, and with streetability...
I'll check some more places for bolts tomorrow Rich. Thanks for the tip...
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,931
From: Upstate NY
Originally posted by Fickle
Rich, I know this question is off topic but where can I find 3/8" 14 thread count bolts for my block to mount to my engine stand? My builder told me it was a 14 thread count...Home Depot didn't have a 14...so my block is sitting until I can get the right bolts to mount it with....
Rich, I know this question is off topic but where can I find 3/8" 14 thread count bolts for my block to mount to my engine stand? My builder told me it was a 14 thread count...Home Depot didn't have a 14...so my block is sitting until I can get the right bolts to mount it with....
I don't think they are 3/8-14 threads. Try a 3/8-16 (coarse thread) bolt. If they are fine threads, that is 3/8-24.
14 threads per inch would be non-standard, and even GM doesn't do that. Even 10 mm coarse threads (M10 x1.25) aren't close to 14 threads per inch.
I'd use grade 5 bolts (3 lines on head) because there's a lot of load on then when you hang a complete engine from the rear face of the block.
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Posts: 92
Originally posted by OldSStroker
I don't think they are 3/8-14 threads. Try a 3/8-16 (coarse thread) bolt. If they are fine threads, that is 3/8-24.
14 threads per inch would be non-standard, and even GM doesn't do that. Even 10 mm coarse threads (M10 x1.25) aren't close to 14 threads per inch.
I'd use grade 5 bolts (3 lines on head) because there's a lot of load on then when you hang a complete engine from the rear face of the block.
I don't think they are 3/8-14 threads. Try a 3/8-16 (coarse thread) bolt. If they are fine threads, that is 3/8-24.
14 threads per inch would be non-standard, and even GM doesn't do that. Even 10 mm coarse threads (M10 x1.25) aren't close to 14 threads per inch.
I'd use grade 5 bolts (3 lines on head) because there's a lot of load on then when you hang a complete engine from the rear face of the block.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 92
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/364194/Block6.JPG
Can someone tell me what this block came out of? I know it's a late model factory roller block. It has the 2 piece adapter on it now, but I have the 1 piece main adapter too. I really don't like the aluminum 2 piece adapter so I may put the stock 1 piece back on and go with a 1 piece crank...
I thought the guy did a great job prepping the motor. It's decked, 30 over, honed, clearanced for a 383...
Input please!
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Posts: 6,518
If it's a 1 piece rear main roller block than most of the time they came out of trucks. There were not many GM applications from 86-99 that were not trucks that used that block. Granted a 86-91 Vette ran that block and a 86-92 A4 F-body did too. It might be even a old caprice classic block. My bet is that it's a truck motor, since about 93 all the small blocks in GM cars were LT1 based motors.
As for a 600hp streetable NA 383, you are going to throw a good amount of money at a motor like that to get that kind of power. Probably roughly around $10K would be my bet for a complete motor that makes that amount of power. That's where a $1000 cranks doesn't always make the best sense.
Bret
As for a 600hp streetable NA 383, you are going to throw a good amount of money at a motor like that to get that kind of power. Probably roughly around $10K would be my bet for a complete motor that makes that amount of power. That's where a $1000 cranks doesn't always make the best sense.
Bret
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 92
Originally posted by SStrokerAce
If it's a 1 piece rear main roller block than most of the time they came out of trucks. There were not many GM applications from 86-99 that were not trucks that used that block. Granted a 86-91 Vette ran that block and a 86-92 A4 F-body did too. It might be even a old caprice classic block. My bet is that it's a truck motor, since about 93 all the small blocks in GM cars were LT1 based motors.
As for a 600hp streetable NA 383, you are going to throw a good amount of money at a motor like that to get that kind of power. Probably roughly around $10K would be my bet for a complete motor that makes that amount of power. That's where a $1000 cranks doesn't always make the best sense.
Bret
If it's a 1 piece rear main roller block than most of the time they came out of trucks. There were not many GM applications from 86-99 that were not trucks that used that block. Granted a 86-91 Vette ran that block and a 86-92 A4 F-body did too. It might be even a old caprice classic block. My bet is that it's a truck motor, since about 93 all the small blocks in GM cars were LT1 based motors.
As for a 600hp streetable NA 383, you are going to throw a good amount of money at a motor like that to get that kind of power. Probably roughly around $10K would be my bet for a complete motor that makes that amount of power. That's where a $1000 cranks doesn't always make the best sense.
Bret
What do you mean when you say I'll have to throw a good amount of money at a motor like that to get 600hp? A block is a block right? Do you mean that it'll take 10k period to make that kind of power from a 383 on pump gas?
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600hp doesn't just happen. The example above of 490hp shows that. 450hp seems to be about the norm on the boards for a 383 LT1.
600hp is going to take some attention to detail, and definately the right combination of parts.
A block is a block to a certain point. For a street motor you are pretty close on yours. A perfectly blueprinted block like a CNC machined Bowtie is worth about 20hp, but new costs between $1700 and $2500 without being decked, bored, honed, cleaned and getting cam bearings installed in it.
A $10K budget is pretty reasonable and low here.
$1400 for heads, a $200 Intake, $600+ porting for both
$600-800 Carb
$500 for pistons (at least)
$250 for Scat Crank, + $200 for balancing
$280 for Scat Rods
$100-250 for rings, Yes they can be up to $250!
$150 for bearings
$400 for Soild Roller Lifters
$90-$290 for Springs
$120 for Pushrods
$140 for Ti Retainers
$250-$400 for a Solid Roller Cam
That's about $6K and you still haven't been nickeled and dimed to death. Which will happen. Oil pans, oil pumps, timing covers, pointer, damper, valve covers, starter, ignition system, headers, distributor, block and block work.
Here are some good examples of some 600hp streetable motors.
This one is roughly $20K
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...208PHRSherman/
This guys is a little cheaper, but he made 530ft lbs and about 550hp out of it. It's the hard way to get there but a very well tuned package.
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...0207phrbeckem/
This guy a a Sprint Car engine builder, this one is around $20K
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...2phr_emsarver/
This guy's motor is pretty good, but he ended up with way too much intake runner volume IMHO. This is about a $15K engine
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...0206PhrEmtech/
Even though this is a Mopar it's got alot of the right things in it
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...5PHR_EmFinals/
In these articles you have all forged bottom ends, because those motors are ment to be flogged HARD on a dyno. In essence they are street car motors, but they are really intended to make alot of power on a dyno. All of them were also tweeked alot on the dyno.
BTW my version of this was about $16K, without labor.
Bret
600hp is going to take some attention to detail, and definately the right combination of parts.
A block is a block to a certain point. For a street motor you are pretty close on yours. A perfectly blueprinted block like a CNC machined Bowtie is worth about 20hp, but new costs between $1700 and $2500 without being decked, bored, honed, cleaned and getting cam bearings installed in it.
A $10K budget is pretty reasonable and low here.
$1400 for heads, a $200 Intake, $600+ porting for both
$600-800 Carb
$500 for pistons (at least)
$250 for Scat Crank, + $200 for balancing
$280 for Scat Rods
$100-250 for rings, Yes they can be up to $250!
$150 for bearings
$400 for Soild Roller Lifters
$90-$290 for Springs
$120 for Pushrods
$140 for Ti Retainers
$250-$400 for a Solid Roller Cam
That's about $6K and you still haven't been nickeled and dimed to death. Which will happen. Oil pans, oil pumps, timing covers, pointer, damper, valve covers, starter, ignition system, headers, distributor, block and block work.
Here are some good examples of some 600hp streetable motors.
This one is roughly $20K
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...208PHRSherman/
This guys is a little cheaper, but he made 530ft lbs and about 550hp out of it. It's the hard way to get there but a very well tuned package.
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...0207phrbeckem/
This guy a a Sprint Car engine builder, this one is around $20K
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...2phr_emsarver/
This guy's motor is pretty good, but he ended up with way too much intake runner volume IMHO. This is about a $15K engine
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...0206PhrEmtech/
Even though this is a Mopar it's got alot of the right things in it
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...5PHR_EmFinals/
In these articles you have all forged bottom ends, because those motors are ment to be flogged HARD on a dyno. In essence they are street car motors, but they are really intended to make alot of power on a dyno. All of them were also tweeked alot on the dyno.
BTW my version of this was about $16K, without labor.
Bret
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Posts: 67
Re: Crank Selection
SStrokerAce,
Thanks for spelling it out like this. I wish I'd seen it sooner, probably won't change my intent (build an engine and learn while I do it), but will help me aim a bit sharper for the results.
Am I correct to see that it is not just parts selection, but whittling those parts afterwards to make sure they all work cohesively?
Also, given the same parts, how much difference is there in a rookie build, and a pro build?
Thanks,
Jason
Thanks for spelling it out like this. I wish I'd seen it sooner, probably won't change my intent (build an engine and learn while I do it), but will help me aim a bit sharper for the results.
Am I correct to see that it is not just parts selection, but whittling those parts afterwards to make sure they all work cohesively?
Also, given the same parts, how much difference is there in a rookie build, and a pro build?
Thanks,
Jason
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,518
Re: Crank Selection
It's a combination of everything. Getting the right parts in there together is key, along with really good machine work.
Most times the difference between a good build and a medocre one is the parts all work together or they don't.
Bret
Most times the difference between a good build and a medocre one is the parts all work together or they don't.
Bret
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 55
Re: Crank Selection
normal crank, 55 pounds
lightweight crank, 50 pounds
typical car w/normal crank, ..... 3346 pounds
same car, w/lightweight crank, .. 3341 pounds
alternate ideas,
wash car, eliminate leaves, dead bugs,,,
clean up inside, join fitness club, etc
lightweight crank, 50 pounds
typical car w/normal crank, ..... 3346 pounds
same car, w/lightweight crank, .. 3341 pounds
alternate ideas,
wash car, eliminate leaves, dead bugs,,,
clean up inside, join fitness club, etc
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,591
From: PA
Re: Crank Selection
Yeah, you only saved 5 lbs, but you saved .1554 slugs (5 lb mass) which must be accellerated linearly and centripitally. 
Someone help me out with the old rule of thumb on equivilent rotating mass?
-brent
Someone help me out with the old rule of thumb on equivilent rotating mass?
-brent
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