So you recommend doing a TBC on top too?

 

For the dyno test program I described, maybe top, bottom and inside too. In other words, prevent heat from getting into the aluminum intake manifold, and trap any that gets in there in the aluminum. This is close to a composite manifold as I can imagine getting an aluminum manifold.

Remember this is for a very specific test, especially if there is inadequate dyno room cooling/ventilation airflow. I'm not saying every engine, but if the last little bit counts....

As far as Injuneer said (tongue in cheek, maybe??), how about TBC on the manifold flange of the intake to help slow down the heat flow from the head ...and while we're at it, the manifold-facing head surface, too? In other words, completely TBC coat the intake manifold on all surfaces. Is that nutz? What's the down-side?

I'm still thinking a lot about this...haven't closed the mind yet.

 

THe supposed downside is that heat that gets on the manifold will not escape via the ceramic coating.. i was also thinking about powdercoating it black on top...

Is it a good idea?

 

It depends, I guess: if it were black-body coating it would radiate heat from the manifold IF the ambient underhood temp was lower than the manifold temp, but wouldn't the coating absorb heat if the underhood temp was higher? That's what concerns me. Hey, underhood temps well above 150F (maybe approaching 200F) can happen.

Still thinking...

 

I know underhood temps can reach 200F... I have measured things at 190F with an infrared meter...

So.. Is it a wise idea to do a TBC on TOP?????

 

We do the same thing. I may have been misunderstood. We use a thermal barrier on the bottom and a dispersant on top. I can understand your question though. Why not just try to block it in the first place? Some heat is going to get in the intake. Through mateing surfaces, air temp, underhood temps, intake duct work temps, and other variables. If the top was coated with a barrier the heat that does get in the intake could not escape. The coating would be working against you. The dispersant will pull the heat out. Which if you think about it it is where it wants to go, up. Some people say it's not worth the $ unless you have a megabuck motor. Untrue. You spend $2000 on heads are you going to use a stock cam? Of course not. You have to have the whole (Head/Cam) package to see the benifits. You will see cooler temps with coating just the intake. Which will result in some gain. But if you do the whole motor you can see a big difference. Sure the coatings add to the thermal efficency of the motor. But it's these properties that allow you to change the tune on the motor to get these gains. i.e. A/F ratios and timing without the threat of detination.

 

Spoken like a true coating guy.


Not to bust your ***** here but.........

$2000 heads.... $600 worth of coatings nets you a few HP. $600 more porting, better cam setup, more displacement etc.... will net you alot more HP. That's my point. Other things should be optimized first.

Coatings are worth it if and when you run into the $ limit or the rules limit. Spend the money in the right places first.

Bret

 

I agree the big ticket items should be done first. I never said otherwise. Gains of 40hp have been seen on a dyno. Due to changes in the tune allowed by the coatings. $600? Who is doing the coating?

 

Post some dyno charts, and not DR'ed up ones to back up that claim. 40hp on 1200hp is one thing on 350 it's another.

What are you doing with the tune on the coatings? Leaning it out more or throwing more timing at it? If you can't get the full timing in on a NA engine then you need more Octane or less compression. Coatings aren't going to help you there. Boost and blowers maybe, because they protect the piston tops from melting under the extra detonation.

A little context would be good to put in here in the "advance forum" Just a claim with nothing to back it up is not what most of us here look at.

Bret

 

i was kind of astounded at the 40hp number....

i was actually contimplating it while my heads were off

$500 for 40hp doesn't seem so bad- i paid more for headers and got less

Sstroker ace burst my bubble though

 

Fantastic, more people on the board flat out lying to sell their sh*t .

The coating testing I've seen was applied to 2.2hp/cid NA roadrace small blocks on the dyno with everything with various coatings (thermal/friction). Nowhere near 40hp, more like 10-15 IIRC.

Unless you're pushing it, I wouldn't bother with most coatings. For longevity in a FI app, I'd consider it though

 

Hum, I’m a bit confused here (and possibly off topic), but looking at those pics I see a lot of very sweet fabrication work, but I’m not sure that I see the point.

It looks like it’s for an LT1 (no coolant passages) running a distributor. The runner length and size appears to be roughly the same with a larger plenum volume. I don’t know that I see anything that would add up to a gain greater then if you cut open an LT1 and doctored it a bit, which I’m betting would have been much cheaper but wouldn’t have looked as good. Am I missing something?

 

Yeah... the ~340 cfm AFR 215 cc raised runner heads that intake was built to mate with.

http://home.gci.net/~jimlab/images/E...d/P1190044.jpg

The hole at the back is for my MSD digital CPC cam sync stub.

 

heh, that makes a little more sence...

 

Im still wondering if coating Combustion chambers and exhaust ports w valves is a good idea to keep the coolant temp a little bit lower than usual... I am wondering if I will see this benefit. If it will lower the temp 15-20º I might do it.

Now that my heads are with you phil, I could sure take your advice

Take care guys.