IIRC, when Porch first did that, they spanked the F40 on Ferrari's own test track! The main reason was decided that the F40 had more open legs, and the Porsche was better at the tighter track setup, doing better through the corners than the more "top speed" oriented F40. Or was it the return of the Turbo Porsche, hmm...

25% or greater drivetrain loss, and a huge amount of weight added to the car dont make it attractive to me, I want simple, light, RWD with IRS, and TONS of grip!

 

There are AWD F bodies around. I saw one at the trailer park once. A Hillbilly put a 78 Camaro body on a 4X4 Blazer chassis. With 35 inch mudders! Now THAT is the ultimate driving machine!

 

I agree with you. Bought a book a few years ago, written by chevy injuneer P. van Valkenburgh, entitled chevrolet= racing...?. It goes into the various projects they entertained, as well as their (non)racing involvement. They even did a project putting vette irs in a camaro. Anyway, their testing resulted in determining the overall effectiveness of each. Top to bottom was AWD, RWD, and last FWD. I consider AWD displaying superior road manuvering/handling characteristics when pushed to the limits of tire adhesion, extra wgt. and torque loss thru drivetrain, and complexity notwithstanding.

 

Another reason for the AWD porsche that it seems everyone is forgetting, is that its a German car ( I think Right?) and its main purpose is for high speed AutoBahn driving. Those Germans don't screw around like us Americans while driving... cell phone, eating fries, havin a cigarette... etc. They drive at 170+ in all weather conditions and it just seems logical that when doing over 150 in the rain that you have GOOD street tires and an AWD system that will help keep you on the straight and narrow better than a RWD only car.

I remember being in Pittsburgh a few years back and the GF had an AWD Subaru Legacy. It was New Years weekend and there was about 4" of slush on the highway. We weren't doing 55mph... oh no!, we were doing 85mph in complete control. I was amazed, really I was.

As for the AWD Camaro, if you want to get some hellacious 60' times, sure its a good idea. Its costly and robs a bit too much power for me to consider it though.

 

My truck likes snow

 

To answer the question originally asked John Moss and the Chevy Toy Box actually built an AWD 3-gen IROC. I believe it was a 97. I've found very few articles or info on this car, but the set-up looks pretty cool.

 

Well I guess I have a bit of experience with AWD ... and have definitely had some RWD fun in the past ... there I think I can safely say on the street AWD definitely had a big advantage. On the streets, in the city, there is all sorts of **** on the road. Dirt, rocks, mud, oil ... you never know what is under your tires. If even one of your rear tires is on a little bit of dirt or sand your traction is nearly entirely compromised in a RWD setup ... whereas in the AWD scenario your VC (or torsen diff) just pushes more power to the front and you go ahead without issue.

However ... I can also say for the track where you get VHT, slicks, and drag suspensions you'd be crazy to stray from RWD. I've cut 1.6 60's ... but those RWD monsters cut 1.3's and 1.4's. The problem is I can't use slicks or DR's because I can't effectively warm them up (only one burn-out pad whereas I would need 2) ... and I can light up all 4 and put the car sideways at the launch ... which hurts my launch. Nope, at the track AWD advantage is all but lost and all you have is AWD disadvantage (weight, drivetrain loss).

But again, in a street car, it is hard to deny the advantage of AWD. However I'd like to think of RWD as a bit more fun ... but maybe that's just because I drive around AWD all the time and have gotten used to it. My RWD friends seem to enjoy driving my car because the tires stay put and AWD powerslides are a blast. Guess the grass is always greener on the other side ...

 

Then you must not have heard of Nissan's Skyline GT-R (see the link to the 1,350 RWHP monster I posted earlier in this thread) or Eddie Bello's AWD Porsche which ran 9.17 @ 162 mph on Toyo Proxes T1-S street radials with wheel stands in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear.

The Skylines especially are capable of incredible quarter mile times, even on street tires or drag radials. HKS ran mid 8s on drag radials with their R33. Here are a few numbers to consider...
http://www.exvitermini.com/records.htm

So tell me exactly how AWD is slow and RWD is such a great advantage? Sure, AWD cars have yet to break into the 6s, as far as I know, but are 7s quick enough for you?

I don't mean to imply that imports are "better" than domestics by any means, but you can't believe how badly an AWD Eclipse with a few mods can rape a bolt-on Camaro at the track. I've seen it done several times. I saw a '95 Eclipse GS-X with street tires run a 12.1 one day at SIR. Granted, a supercharger, squeeze, or a big stroker would put that guy away, but he's only got a few bolt-ons on an otherwise stock car. How is that slow?

On the domestic side, Syclones and Typhoons aren't slow by any means. People run 11s and 10s in them, so how is AWD holding them back?

If you put enough power in an AWD car (or truck), you're going to be damn quick. Rhys Millen's Toyota Tacoma (~900 horsepower, lots of carbon fiber, and AWD) ripped off a 10-second quarter at mid 130s on its Pike's Peak off-road tires in a Motor Trend or Car & Driver (can't remember which) comparison a year or so ago.

A 3000GT VR4 probably isn't the best comparison point. The high curb weight and relatively weak transmissions don't make them "ideal" drag cars, but yes, there are certainly VR4s in the low 12s and 11s, and probably even a handful in the 10s.

Bottom line, there are AWD cars (and trucks) of many different types which do just fine at the drag strip. However, converting a Camaro to AWD would be a waste of money. They do just fine with the drive wheels in the back.

 

Well first let me say your 1400HP skyline isn't running on gasoline anymore. Second, for the money they put into that skyline you could easily have two 2000 HP (or higher) domestics that both could be running 7's all day long. Third, the skyline is more or less a "special" AWD system that converts to 95% RWD once its off the line.

Regardless in my experience RWD will Nullify AWD at the track once you get the money in the tires and suspension. Hell a stock C5 vette with the traction control on can cut 2.0's with street tires and no VHT. If I launch well I get a 1.7 ... 1.8 on a bad launch and a 1.6 on a great launch. There are some guys in the 1.5's ... but they have LSD's in the front. In any case it isn't that hard to get a 1.8 out of a RWD car ... which makes up for the vast majority of the AWD advantage. As for the eclipse there is only one in the 9's that I know of which still retains the AWD ... and it pops a tranny every other run (good thing they are cheap in the junkyards). Other than that the single digit DSM's are all FWD or (in the case of the fastest ones) converted to RWD.

I love my AWD but I know that at the track ... in the 1320 ... it is only so good. Once you lay down the VHT and allow in the slicks ... the playing field is even and the advantages of RWD can come to shine.

 

OK, whatever.

 

Funny how the RWD guy is arguing for AWD and the AWD guy is arguing for RWD. lol.

 

Not to add or detract from any statements but I have a buddy who's a magazine editor. He went up to Canada last year to test drive one of HPA's modified Audi TTs. They also make AWD golfs, jettas......all those cars that are built on the same chassy. Anyway, HPA beefs up the audi's drivetrain and plops the 24V (not the american version [until this year]) VR6 in there w/ two Porsche KKK turbos.
Anyway, the particular car he was test driving was a wide-bodied Audi TT that on a 4-wheel dyno had put 518hp to the wheels! That was w/ an internally stock motor. Anyway, you know how Canada is. He went up there for 4 days and it was still rainy and nasty outside. To his surprise the owner of HPA suggested he test it in the rain. They plopped on some BFGKDRWs and went at it. I don't specifically remember all the #s but the audi ran 61mph in the 600ft. slalom and ran a 11.7 @ 121mph on a rain-soaked 1/4mile strip!!!!!!....of street!!!! A stock subaru legacy will whip my camaros **** w/ the first sign of a drizzel.

 

I completely agree with Feral. AWD is the best on the street and on street tires, but as you move into stickier tire categories RWD starts to show its advantages.

 

I've been 1.09 60' with rwd in my Camaro...find an awd car anywhere that can do that. In drag racing rwd is king.

 

That's great, so you're saying that when it really needed traction, at the torque spike at every shift, it was using only the rear wheels anyway...