unless you enjoy never ending overheating issues and cracked cylinder walls, keep it below 4.050

I cracked a block at 4.060, not to mention that puppy ranhot.

 

too bad nobody makes an aftermarket reverse cooled block that could go to 4.2" bore like the standard SBC blocks can

4.2" bore x 4" stroke lt1 would be real mean but 4" stroke on the standard deck height is obviously pushing it

 

In aluminum...

 

It will dissipate heat better... but... too high horsepower will not make the Al block to break? The cobra 03 has an Iron block instead of Al... although z06s are getting high horsepower on stock internals... and block widstanding 600rwhp +++

 

Hope nobody minds my tossing a few ideas....

First, bigger is better in theory. In theory it's a good practice, but in practice it's only a good theory. I don't like big stroke motors for a lot of reasons that I won't bore you with. I understand the desire to build something different, and "409" sounds flashy for sure. For practical reasons though, you don't need anything radical to get where you want to go, and oddball stuff =$$$$ as you well know.

My thoughts are that a properly designed 383 blower combo is far more practical than a radical 409 NA.

I'm just thinking out loud here, but an LT1>SBC conversion might be in order. Something like a nice Little M set up at 4.185x3.875 with a 6" rod and a stand alone would be fun. I am putting together that engine right now with a set of Brodix 18* heads and a solid roller right now for an N20 application. Am hoping to locate a ChevyII over the winter for a nasty street car

Allright, I give up. I had something meaningful to contribute but am extremely hung over and can't think. Now that I've spent ten minutes trying to string together my thoughts I have to post it. Sincere apologies to all who just wasted two minutes reading this.

 

My first LT1 before going to the Gen 1 block was a 409. Wasn't my first choice but I had the crank from a previous order and it made a good home, albeit with alot of clearancing. After a bit of tuning preceeding a previous dyno run (488 rwhp) along with a new intake, the engine was probably in the 500 rwhp range. But that was about the limit I'd care to push a daily driver combination like that on stock 23º heads. The long stroke motors eat alot of the power in frictional and pumping losses so there's a limit. Because of this, pushing them to high rpm is usually counterproductive.
For your goal of 450 rwhp you should just stay with the 3.75-3.875 stroke combinations. A good cylinder head is imperative, but the combination of that, maximizing the tune and a mild solid roller will get you where you want to be without much problem. The RR AFR 215's are a good choice, even easier (and more streetable) with an 18º or 15º conversion though. All comes down to $ in the end.

Take care,
Chuck Riddeck
Progressive Race Engine Development

 

I appreciate everyone's thoughts and experiences. One thing is for sure......... I'm going back to a hydraulic cam. I just plain had too many bad experiences with lifter problems. Glad to hear other people are having good luck so I'll blame it on my grandfather and the family curse...... but, I've had a bunch of problems with solid rollers.

Thanks gang! OH....... what am I gonna do? Just keep it a 383 with killer heads and have fun for a change. Sure do like the sound of a 409 though.

 

Denny, why not save yourself some headache and prices of floor dry with the leaky LT1's and go LS1/6? more power.. more reliability and it is the motor of the future... it has been a while since we spoke.. this is Wes of Area 51 days... i do have my 6" 383 with LT4 heads from GTP that still makes 460 hp at the tire that i am interested in gettign rid of... i will make you a good deal on it.. if your interested let me know.. it has under 3K on it since it has sat since leaving Dallas and i have a Z06 now that runs 11.30's at 132MPH all stock with a NOS NOSzle system pilled at 175.... I have all receipts for my parts and would be willign to talk with you about it if you want to save some cash on putting together another LT1.... with the heads, all the machine work and high end parts you would have about 17K in my LT1 that you can get really reasonable...

Wes

 

whoa.. he is alive!

 

Wes

I heard you were living in Chicago. Glad to see you’re still alive and well. Still remember you building the engine you’ve got for sale.

Hey……..How’s that snow feeling hitting ya in the *** about right now? Dallas is pretty rough during the summer….. but compared to Chi Town in December, it looks pretty damn good at the moment.

I’ve mentally been though selling the 96 CE and getting a ZO6. It’s pretty impressive to see 390 rwhp with just intake, tuning and exhaust. AND….. it’s even got a warranty. Hell, heads and cam cars are getting 450 rwhp and look at what the 434’s are doing. No argument out of me that you can’t make them run.

Actually it’s pretty cheap to redo my current 383. All I need to do is freshen up the block, new cam, new heads and the car is where it should be. The heads may be fine in it now, but I just don’t trust the person whom did them or I wouldn’t even bother. Figured I’d look into doing a 409 while the engine is out of the car. Seems it’s not worth the effort, nor the effort to do another 396.

Course…. It ain’t over yet on buying a ZO6 either.

Good hearing from ya and good luck.

 

LOL.. yeah that is the price you pay for following the cash train.. the summers up here rock.. the street scene and crusing is a lot better than dallas.. the Texas boys still have the stuff to beat.. but all in all it isn't too bad up here.. i do want to get back to Texas one day though.. it sucks being a normal joe and having to pay for dyno time which i get for free at Norwoods on my old dyno.. few parts discounts.. but oh well i am making due. I had an 01 Carrera for a year and though that would satisfy me.. WRONG... even German engineering and panache could not satisfy the need for power... SO the Z06 is the new toy... LOVE IT!! this car ROCKS!! i am thrilled with the way it drives.... OFF THE SHOWROOM FLOOR!! add the spray and you can't ask for a better ride with a warranty!! i have a set of GTP LS6 heads and a cam i plan on putting in this winter but i am having a hard time bringing myself to do it... i don't want to go down the Camaro path.. money pit.. spitting parts.. you knwo the routine.. it is a reminder everyday in the garage.. if i could get a decent penny for it i would sell it but the LS1 cars are in high demand these days.. Good luck with your rebuild Denny and for what its worth i would run a 6" rod in the 383... it is too much rod in a 96 or 409.. not enough deck room withe the wrist pin height as well with the position of the pin in the cyl it creates HEAVY loading of the cyl wall on the power stroke... good luck and talking with y'all now that i am back in the right frame of mind and driving GM again!!


Jordan i see you have come a long way since the early days of Area 51... glad your doing so well and have a great name for yourself!!
Wes

 

I was the one whom grew up 120 miles from Chicago. Literally grew out of my diapers watching the 60’s muscle car wars between Chevy, Ford and Mopar. Absolutely killer racing (street and track racing) all through the area.

Hell, in high school; all there was to do was drink beer, race your buddies, do donuts in the snow and screw in the back seat. Something had to be good out of the four besides doing donuts. Sure wasn’t the Pabst Blue Ribbon or the women. Course the Pabst did make the Midwest women a bit better looking. Problem is the beer wore off. These Texas women are hard to beat and you know it.

Hey, on the 383 and 6” rods……… Man I’m keeping with the 5.7 rods for two reasons:

#1 under 6,500 rpm their just ain’t much difference. #2 their paid for. You and I both know how much money we’ve peed away on these LT1 cars trying to buy that magic bean. May be time to start getting smart for a change.

I’m changing professions leaving the medical industry and going with a large builder into real estate. If I can get away with driving a Z06, I may be with ya.

 

I thought also that 5.7" rod on a 383 made the most power too...

Although sideloading shouldn't bee much if kept under 6500 as you said..

 

Denny , I'm thinking of selling my motor and dropping in a LS1... Let me know if your interested...
sldrdave@globalserve.net

 

If you want to get the most out of a NA then the LS1 is the way to go... if not... if max powe is what you want.. you can do it better with a lt1... I think... puting in great internals and a big supercharger... it can be done.