Why is it I see everybody with 160' thermostats? What is so special about 160? I relize there is "more power" with the car running cooler, but honestly.. how much in gains is there in all reality?
Matt

 

i needed a thermostat so i figured i'd buy a 160 degree one...its only like 6 bucks, you can't go wrong..

 

i didnt know they gave more power....but thats cool...well i wanted to get my car away from the 220+ temp during the summer so i went ahead and did it...it helps...kinda...it does run cooler and only occasionally gets over 220....thanks for that useful peice of info...

 

Unless your ECM chip is programed for a 160 deg stat, it will be usless to a certain extent.

 

Well, thermostats in general dont give more power, just the cooler temp.'s that your car will be running at if you get a lower than stock thermostat. But isn't around 220 the normal running temp for a Camaro? Why does your ECM have to be programmed for a 160 deg stat?

 

The fans have to be kicked on at a lower temp to match the thermostat or it'll still run at a high temperature around town when there is very little air flowing through the radiator. On the highway, if the cooling system is in good shape, it'll drop down closer to the stat's temp since the forward motion of the car continuously forces air through the rad. You can reprogram the ECM to turn on the fans at a lower temp (TPI only) or you can buy a lower temp fan switch for your car from the aftermarket (TPI or TBI engine). It's the sensor in the pass. side cyl. head between #6 & #8 exhaust ports.

If your temp gague is reading accurately, 180* true engine temp will point the temp gague needle approximately to the little hash mark between the 100* and 220* marks on your temp gague. They regularly read up around 220 on true stock applications because of the stock 195* stat, the high fan cut-on temps used by the factory and the fact that the gagues just aren't very accurate in many cases.

 

Lowering the thermo temp is not recommended unless the ecm has be reprogrammed as stated...this is because the coolant temp sensor in the manifold "shakes" hands with the O2 and the ECM....when the coolant get ths operating temp (195) then the motor goes into closed loop...lowering the opening temp of the thermo will cause the coolant to flow through the motor without it being in closed loop...not good...

and contrary to what everyone in this post obviously believes, lowering the thermo temp wont do squat....these motors are designed to run at 200 degrees...you want the incoming air to be as cool as possible....the motor/oil temp needs to be at 200 degrees because it promotes better burn and less emissions....

 

Beg to differ on that one. The engine will go into closed loop FAR below 195*. Factory programming will allow closed loop operation with coolant temps as low as 70* as long as the O2 is up to temp (which has nothing to do with engine temp). Not 170*. SEVENTY degrees. I don't know why the myth about lower stat temps not allowing closed lop operation persists on the internet, but it's absolutely not true.

Lower the operating temp of a TPI motor will make it run stronger, too. My TPI motors always ran their best as cold as I could make them at the track. Not just becuase of the programming (which, contrary to popular belief, does not just turn on "let's party" mode at some arbitrary temp) but also becuase that heat gets the intake system on the TPI hot. That's a LOT of metal the air has to go past on it's way to the intake valve. Hot air is not good for power and the TPI with the LONG runners has lots of opportunity to heat up the intake air.

Colder is better for power. Hot helps for emissions and engine wear which is why the factory runs them so hot.

Some other things that help the TPI run better, also related to temperature, are to bypass the TB cooling lines and to relocate the intake air temp sensor from under the "hot" intake plenum to somewhere over in the air/filter box.

 

Cooler engine = cooler metal surface where the air come thru
cooler air surface = lower air temp charge
lower air temp charge = more dense air
more dense air = more oxygen in the cylinder
more oxygen in the cylinder + more fuel = more power

If your motor is hotter by 40 deg, doesn't that make the air charge hotter too? 200 deg is excellent for emmissions because it burns cleaner. You could make an engine burn very clean but it probably won't make power. 5000 HP dragsters don't burn clean at all but make mad power. Somewhere in between would be good for our cars.

 

So aklim.. what would a good "between" be for our cars?

 

IMHO, 180 is too close to a 195 stat to make much of a difference. Unless I wanted to keep it as close to stock for emmissions numbers, I would certainly go with a 160. Now, if I wanted to drive this car in the dead of winter, I might go with a 195 in the winter just because I wanted the head and not freeze myself while the car slowly heats up. So if you are running in the summer, late spring and early fall, I don;t see why a 160 stat wouldn;t work. With a 160, you will still go into open loop although the arguement is that if everyone did that, pollution would be higher.

 

"Unless your ECM chip is programed for a 160 deg stat, it will be usless to a certain extent"



dude, there is no reason to reprogram anything for normal driving to take advantage of the lower temp stat. now for it to show in heavy traffic yeah, but in those situations who really cares about the added couple hp??

my 87 and my 96 and now my 99z ALL take advantage of the lower stat for my driving.

and the computer goes into closed loop much below the stat temperature.

i drove my iroc in zero degree weather for a few weeks (live in florida but visited family in NY) and ohter than taking about 2-3 min longer to warm up...i saw no problems.

there have been several dyno tests that show a 3-5hp gaiin from going to a lower stat...for $10 i'll take it.

 

I guess you don't care when the fans come on. Or you don't drive your car in Florida. What do you think controls the fans??

 

The fan switch (temperature sensor just for the fan) controlls the fan. This is in no way connected to the thermostat. There are three temp sensors in your car the fan switch, one for the ECM, and one for the gauge, guess which one of them the thermostat controlls... None.

The fans come on between 210 and 225 or so depending on what setup you have. Putting in a 160 degree thermostat will in no way shape or form effect the temerature at which the fans turn on. So yes if you are sitting in traffic or moving slowly such that the fans are reqired to turn on the car will still heat up to 210 degrees or so kicking the fans on, when it cools down to 180 or so, they turn off. They do this regaurdless of your thermostat temp. You could run with a 100 degree stat and they would still work. Yes, a lower temp stat is completly useless when you arn't moving along but when you are it will keep things a little cooler and not do any damage.

 

"I guess you don't care when the fans come on. Or you don't drive your car in Florida. What do you think controls the fans??"

actually...all 3 of my camaros were 99.%% florida driven. and no...sitting in traffic i really didn't care if the fans didn't turn on till 210 or whatever stock is. as long as they turned on, if the factory felt that was sufficient i was content. however driving around without traffic or when on the highway is when i wanted to added Hp from cooler temps...ie when fans are not running anyway...not when sitting in rush hour traffic!! and like stated above...the stat has nothing to do with turning the fans on.


"a lower temp stat is completly useless when you arn't moving along but when you are it will keep things a little cooler and not do any damage"

EXACTLY. i like to take advantage of the cooler temps when driving around too. if you want cooler temps for the track or rush hour, you'll need a fan switch or a reprogram...but for everyday driving...not needed. my 3rd gen and LT1 ran right around 170/175 with the stat iin place for most of my driving.