LesPaulGoth

I recently bought a 1990 305 Iroc Z. It's really nice, and I'm in love with it but it has a few quirks:

1. The car will fail to start now and then. It has happened in various conditions. What will happen is I will sit down and turn the key, and absolutely nothing will happen, just the console lights and tone will come on. The battery isnt drained, as the lights and all other electronics work fine. I suspect the solenoid in the starter is bad and needs to be replaced. Does this sound about right? The starter is an AC-Delco starter, so if this is the issue, should I look into getting a replacement solenoid, or a whole new starter?

2. The brakes have been acting up on me lately. They were fine and extremely responsive at first, but the other day as I was driving normally, the pedal depressed 3/4 of the way and barely did a thing to slow the car down. Then I got a !Brakes! light on my console that comes on and off periodically, and the brake pedal will continue to depress far until taking affect. Now, the brakes will still work, but its scaring me that they take that long to engage. I suspect the Brake Master Cylinder is the culprit in this case. I know its not an issue with vacuum and running a big cam, because Im just running the stock cam. What is the suggested fix for a problem like this? Anywhere where I can get a replacement Camaro Master Cylinder? I dont want to spend 150$ on a performance one, OEM will do just fine.

transambill

The starting issue could be your VATS system acting up.

As far as the brakes,check for leaks and air in your system,air in the system will throw a brake lite and allow a lot of pedal travel.

Ben91RS

transambill is right.

The first problem does sound like a VATS issue. When the car won't start, does the "SECURITY" light come on?

The second problem is a leak or air in the system. When the BRAKE light comes on, it means that there is a leak somewhere in the brake system (or a lot of air). Check the brake fluid level and check all the lines for leaks. Don't replace the master cylinder just yet.

LesPaulGoth

Thans so far for your replies, I appreciate it. I'll check for the Security light next time it happens, but if it is the Vehical anti theft system, then what would I have to do to correct the problem. I don't know too much of how this system works, so would someone be able to explain it?

I checked the resevoir a few days ago when it first happened and the Brake Fluid was full. I'll check for a leak in the lines tonight, but as far as getting rid of the air, would all I have to do is bleed the system? I was talking to a friend of mine, and he said that the bleeders are notorious for breaking, further screwing up the brake situation. Is this true?

Thanks again. I'm newer to the whole car thing, and have been trying to learn as much as possible. Thanks for the help.

Ben91RS

If it does turn out to be the VATS, than the first thing you can try is cleaning the little pellet resistor on the key. Sometimes they get dirty and it changes the resistance value of the pellet. You could also try a good spare ignition key if you have one just to rule that out. But, I won't go into too much more detail until you know for sure if it's the VATS or not.

And, yes, all you would have to do is bleed the brakes. It is really not that hard at all. If your really worried about breaking the bleeder screws, then buy some penetrating oil (PB Blaster is the most common brand they sell at auto parts stores), spray it on the bleeder screws, let it sit for a while, and then attempt to loosen the bleeder. Works great.

angel71rs

Is it an automatic? If so, neutral safety switch could be going bad. Just use a paper clip to jumper the connector with the big wires at the switch (connector for smaller wires is for back up lights). If clip fixes it, switch is bad. I did this as a parking lot fix on an 89 Formula I used to have.

Could be something as simple as a loose/corroded cable at battery or starter. This can allow lights to come on, but not enough current to kick over starter.

Can be solenoid, if it is, I like to get the lifetime starters from Autozone. Last time I bought one it was ~ 30 complete with solenoid. Pulling down the starter on my 89 was a pain, no way I'd just replace the solenoid, and end up pulling it down again down the road when the starter wears out.

As far as brake problem, if pedal is firm most of the time, but sometimes goes to the floor, usually the master cylinder. Master has seals on a piston that pushes fluid out the ports. Seals get worn, start to allow fluid to back flow, pedal goes to floor. Usually gets worse with time.

Reason your brake light comes on: don't know if 90 still has proportioning valve, but: the prop valve has a piston sitting in the middle of it. Pressure from the port for the front brakes balances pressure from the port for the rear brakes, keeping piston centered. If you lose pressure for front or rear, piston gets pushed over to one end, contacts a switch connection, light comes on.

Get master at any autoparts store.

respectirocz

if mastercylinder is hte problem its not too expensive at autozone,
starter also not so bad at autozone, but i dont think they're 30 bucks anymore

if u break a bleeder screw, and u can get the remnants out, u can get replacement bleeder screws at any auto parts store
if its stuck in there or u striped the threads, the wheel cylinders are no more than 15 each and the calipers are dirt cheap too since alot of gm cars use the same ones

check the actual brake lines themselves because over time they will rust and a line could be the problem

LesPaulGoth

Ok, I'm going to check the brake system this weekend when I get some time and look for leaks and things like that.

The stater (or whatever it is at this point, I don't know.) wacked out on me again today...this time leaving me stranded for an hour and a half. First, the car stalled as I was rolling to a stop...now thats something else I have to look into. (previous owner advanced the timing 14 degrees instead of the usual 6-8 that I see...problem?) And then I tried to start it up again...nothing. Lights would come on (security, service engine, Inf. Rest., and Brakes), as well as the tone, but no ignition. At first I was hearing a clicking coming from where the starter is located, but then that eventually stopped as I kept trying to start it. I'm going to have to check all the connections and check the voltage that the battery is putting out when I get to work tonight. I dont know if the battery is drained though because the radio, lights, interior electronics all work fine. I checked the connections on the battery and they were secure and un-corroded.

After about 90 minutes, the car randomly decided to start up again, and I drove back home. Since the point that it wouldnt start, and the point that it did start, I didnt really do anything, it just kind of did it on its own. So in light of this new information, does anyone else have another suggestion?

transambill

Yes, Sounds like VATS. After it kicks in,theres a reset period you have to wait before you can start the car. Once the VATS resets itself you can try to start the car.
Sounds like what happened to you. The stalling is something totally different.
14 deg. advanced is too much timeing. The most I run is 8* but you can get by with 10* as long as you run premium fuel.

LesPaulGoth

After a little research on the VATS, I have realized that my car does NOT have a VAT System. When Ben91Rs mentioned the pellet on the key, that got me thinking...my key does not have one on it. Then I looked up the year that Chevy started putting VATS in the Camaros, and that was apparently in 1991. Remember I have a 1990, the last of the Iroc Z...no VATS. So we can rule that out. Now, I get off work in like an hour and then I will come back with the voltage readings from the battery, and later tonight, I'll check all the connections.

So I am thinking this:

-Drained battery (god I hope, lol)
-Bad Starter
-Bad Connection

transambill

Your car should have VATS unless somebady swapped it out.
VATS was installed starting in 88 on the F-Bodys.
If somebodys swapped it out or disabled it incorrettly that could be your problem.

If you look under the dash on the drivers side there should be a thick white wire(looks like phone wire)thats the VATS wire that runs from your ignition switch to your VATS brainbox under the dash.
Check this out.
http://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/vats.shtml

You can also learn more from that sites message boards by doing a search for VATS.
Hope this helps.

LesPaulGoth

Okay, alot of this is coming together now, again I thank you guys for your help. Well, my car must have had the original ignition taken out, because my key does not have a pellet on it. Also, it says in the terms of sale contract that I signed that a new ignition lock cylinder has been previously installed. Now this could explain why I have a different key and no VATS pellet on it. If this is the case, the way they wired it in could be faulty, no?

But check this out. After work, I did a voltage test with the multimeter from work. I got a lower reading for the battery. I believe I had the voltage setting reading 11.07. I got a friend of mine to come over with jumper cables and jump it. I connected all the wires, and sat for a minute. I then tried to start the car, and I could hear the starter trying to wind up, kind of grinding or cranking if you will. I waited another minute, and the same thing. Then after a little more, the car finally started, and I drove it home problem free. Now, does this mean that it is the battery that can be causing this whole entire problem? I sure hope so, that'd be great. I just dont want to buy the wrong parts for my problem and waste that money.

transambill

It sounds like the battery would be a good place to start.Any idea how old your current battery is,is it dated? Now may be a good time to replace it.
Also check the voltage the alternator is putting out,no sense hooking a good battery to a bad alternator killing the battery.

Id also check to see how they bypassed the VATS. Make sure there wasn't any afro engineering going on. See if it was bypassed like described in the link I posted.

LesPaulGoth

I rechecked the battery again today and its holding a 12 volt charge when the car is off and 13.6 when it is on. So it seems to be fine now, well see, I have to keep checking it daily. Now, if I were to test the alternator, where would I touch the diodes to? While the car is off or on? Also, to check the charge the starter is giving off with the multimeter, where would I connect the diodes to on that. Also, is this while the car is off or on? And what reading should I be getting from that as well as the alternator?

dcrews

FWIW, a fully charged 12 volt car battery is 12.6 volts.

If you're only getting ~12, it's either not fully charged, or bad.

Take the battery out of the car and take it to your local auto parts store. Most likely they can test it for free.

Do that first, then go from there.

Hope that helped!