3rd Gen / L98 Engine Tech 1982 - 1992 Engine Related

So is any of this 305 stuff true?

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Old Sep 17, 2005 | 02:27 PM
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YARDofSTUF's Avatar
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So is any of this 305 stuff true?

The 305 cubic inch small block Chevy has enjoyed a strange fascination within certain hot rodding circles and more of a loyal following than many are ready to admit. Some "knowledgeable" people will tell you that a 305 can't make any appreciable street power, they'll tell you that you can't ever do anything serious with any engine as small as a 305. I tend to approach life differently than other people, instead of asking what a motor can't do, instead I ask what a motor can do. Quite often, it is the smallest engines which give up the biggest gains in performance. In all honesty, can you do anything with a 305 small block Chevy? Yes, you can do plenty with the 305 small block Chevy and you can do it cheaply and easily. One of the best examples of this particular motor is the engine designated as the L03. The L03 engine, mostly found in the 1988 to 1992 Third Generation F-body Camaro and Firebird models, but also in certain other GM cars and light trucks, makes an excellent hot rodding project because it is plentiful, affordable, and offers a wide range of modification possibilities.

But why choose a 305 to modify instead of the much more popular 350? People are quick to forget the 265cid and 283cid small block Chevy engines that eventually led to other engines like the 350. People forget the awesome 6000rpm plus 302cid V8 of the '67 to '69 Camaro Z-28, itself a 327 destroked with a 283 crankshaft. 302 cubic inches? In an era of high performance engines with much larger displacements, the 302 was just too small ! However, its small displacement didn't stop the high winding Chevy 302 from becoming a legend in its own right.

No. The small 305 became unpopular mainly due to reasons other than just its small displacement, most of these reasons being the product of pure ignorance and hear-say among so called 'professionals' who acted like anything but...


The electronic throttle-body injection assembly found on the model year 1988 to 1992 5.0 liter L03 305cid V8 motor is a Rochester Products Division Model 220 series TBI unit. The Model 220 is equipped with twin Multec fuel injectors each with a 43mm, 1.693-inch bore. The injectors are mounted above the butterfly-like throttle body assembly. The injectors are current-technology, ball-seal-type units that deliver fuel at a maximum rate of 54lbs per hour (24.5kg) at a conservative 10-psi fuel supply pressure. Engine idle speed is controlled with a simple pintle driven by an ECM-controlled stepper motor in the throttle bypass air circuit. The system continuously self-adjusts for all air density variations and engine load parameters as the ECM moves the idle air control pintle in or out the correct amount required to maintain the proper idle RPM. A special idle air passage in the throttle body assembly itself distributes air evenly to both sides of the engine, resulting in improved idle quality and low-speed drivability. A variety of sensors placed around the unit and the motor itself provide the ECM the input necessary to adjust the engine operating parameters.

It sounds complicated, but TBI is actually easier to work on than a carburetor, and a lot more efficient.


TBI has been (somewhat wrongly) termed a 'smart carburetor'. It is 'that', and much more. TBI is digital / electronic fuel injection system that utilizes the traditional wet manifold design. TBI shares the wet manifold design with the long aging carburetor, among a few other similarities, but TBI is not a 'smart carburetor'. If I were to refer to TBI in comparison to the intelligence level of a carburetor, 'smart' would be an insult. Adjectives like 'Brilliant' and 'Genius' would be more appropriate than just 'smart'. In comparison to TBI, the typical carburetor does well to reach the descriptive adjective of 'retarded' in comparison. TBI is highly capable, precision computer controlled and adjusted fuel injection, and differs from TPI only in how the fuel is introduced to the cylinders. TBI sprays fuel into the intake manifold, under high pressure and in precise amounts according to data taken from numerous sensors in and around the engine, all controlled from a dedicated engine management computer termed the ECM by GM. This fuel spray is mixed precisely with a carefully determined amount of air at the point of entry, whipped through the intake manifold by engine vacuum and distributed to each cylinder by air flow and vacuum routing.

Sound like a carb to you?

Not quite. A carb relies on highly inaccurate and often inconsistent engine generated vacuum to feed and mix the fuel properly. Very inefficient and unpredictable and when compared to the computer controlled injection systems, very primitive. EFI is the future and the carburetor is the past. There are many reasons no American car is produced with a carburetor. Those reasons include; drivability, economy, efficiency, power, reliability, and throttle response. All very good reasons. A carburetor just can't compete with EFI, not in the light of educated argument and real world performance.

Here's what the GM techs said about TBI:

"Everybody figured throttle body injection wouldn't fly because it was nothing more than a force-fed carburetor. When you run it on the dynamometer it doesn't look like anything. When you measure the various parameters such as mixture distribution and brake-specific fuel consumption, it doesn't look like anything. But, when you put it against the best emission controlled carburetor we had in 1979, '80, and '81, the car drove worlds better with Throttle body fuel injection. It translates to something that's measurable in car fuel economy and drivability and the customers love it."

Now that we have described the various induction systems, let's talk about manifold designs and induction operations.
http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/praisetbi.html


And then this guy drags on talking forever but mentions all the basics and throwing in a 400 small block crank into the 305 to get 100 extra hp?

http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/mods.html

BS?
Old Sep 17, 2005 | 03:05 PM
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Re: So is any of this 305 stuff true?

i looked at it all (there was a ton to be looked at) but i didnt see anything about adding a 400 crank and getting 100hp, maybe i missed it. i am new to chevy, i just got a 86 iroc z28 last night and it has a 305 in it and a 700r4 trans and i like it a lot but.....it dosent have any nut past like 4300 rpm, the link gave me a cuple ideas on how to overcome it
Old Sep 17, 2005 | 04:08 PM
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Re: So is any of this 305 stuff true?

Originally Posted by high c
i looked at it all (there was a ton to be looked at) but i didnt see anything about adding a 400 crank and getting 100hp, maybe i missed it. i am new to chevy, i just got a 86 iroc z28 last night and it has a 305 in it and a 700r4 trans and i like it a lot but.....it dosent have any nut past like 4300 rpm, the link gave me a cuple ideas on how to overcome it

"If you've got it, stroke it! Your final step is to stroke your 5.0 liter. That's right! Drop a 400 small block Chevy crank into your 305 and you get 335cid! This one modification alone, as done by Super Chevy magazine, with a plain old factory Q-jet carb installed on a Edelbrock Performer manifold, a set of headers, and a mild, mild cam, running 5.0 H.O. heads and a mild stock compression ratio, made for almost 100 horses over stock!"

its very burried. But i'm very hesitant to belive my engine can produce 270 hp lol
Old Sep 17, 2005 | 04:16 PM
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Re: So is any of this 305 stuff true?

first of all get it right, a 305 has no nuts, with a stock running of between 155 and 175 hp, and the torque not much higher. its not really what i would call a ballsy engine. the displacement might help with a bit of power but i would say 100 horses is a bit much. if i were you run the dog sh*t out of your 305 while you save for a real engine. free the hampsters runnin you engine and put the real ponies in. maybe its just me but its sad that a ricer 4 cylinder car had more nuts than my camaro does. thats why i have a stroker ready any waitin to drop in it.
Old Sep 18, 2005 | 03:51 AM
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Re: So is any of this 305 stuff true?

Here is video clip of my no nuts 305,
http://www.transamws6.com/video/ZepherWS6.mpg
Old Sep 18, 2005 | 11:00 AM
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Re: So is any of this 305 stuff true?

All that, and the guy ignores the issue of valve shrouding?

The 302 he is referring to has tons more potential than a 305 due to the bore size. The302 is a destroket 327, which had a 4 inch bore. A 305 has a smaller bore, and will have valve shrouding problems. Thats why the 305 doesn't have the same potential in proportion to its displacement as a 350, or a 327, or a 302.
Old Sep 18, 2005 | 06:24 PM
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Re: So is any of this 305 stuff true?

If you have a 305 TBI, the best thing is nitrous. Its fun. And cheap. Other than that, get a 350.
Old Sep 19, 2005 | 12:05 AM
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Re: So is any of this 305 stuff true?

Originally Posted by Zepher
Here is video clip of my no nuts 305,
http://www.transamws6.com/video/ZepherWS6.mpg
HOLY CRAP!!!! like hell thats a 305 what kind of exaust is on that beast?!?!?! sounds like a carb??
Old Sep 19, 2005 | 12:13 AM
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Re: So is any of this 305 stuff true?

Originally Posted by Zepher
Here is video clip of my no nuts 305,
http://www.transamws6.com/video/ZepherWS6.mpg

ya ur car is badass...

u live in va?.. i used to live in yorktown.. i should be bring my z28 up there in jan.. maybe we can meet. i wanna check that beast out
Old Sep 19, 2005 | 01:42 AM
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Re: So is any of this 305 stuff true?

Damn zeph. I think I remember when you first posted that vid awhile ago. Is that car still in one piece?

Does your current formy sound like that?

Oh yeah, I hate how people compare the 305 vs 327, 302, 283, etc. There is no comparison, they have completely different bore/strokes and potential powerbands.
Old Sep 19, 2005 | 02:45 AM
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Re: So is any of this 305 stuff true?

Yep, that was my old 305LG4. It was carbed and then I swapped on a set of TPI heads, TPI setup, SLP CAI, Crane Cams Powermax 2050 camshaft, Heddman shorties, pacesetter 3" catback, custom y-pipe, high-flo- 3" cat.



here is the motor,



The motor died a few years ago and I put in a cammed LT1/T56 in there but never finished it and sold the car to a friend for $5K.

The Formula doesn't sound anything like my old Trans Am,

http://www.transamws6.com/video/manny-acu4.wmv
Old Sep 19, 2005 | 07:37 AM
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Re: So is any of this 305 stuff true?

I find the stroke comment funny. He says something like, "This step alone, combined with headers, intake, and cam, provided 100 hp over stock."

The 305 already has too long of a stroke for the bore. Adding more stroke is just unwise. Especially when you consider that throwing in a 350 will be cheaper and will add more displacement (With bore, not stroke) and can still be stroked later.
Old Sep 19, 2005 | 05:31 PM
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Re: So is any of this 305 stuff true?

LOL
Old Sep 20, 2005 | 12:26 PM
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Re: So is any of this 305 stuff true?

Gees I've never read so much BS in one place. This whole article shouldn't have been more than 3 or 4 paragraphs. I always get suspicious when someone keeps repeating the same thing over and over. Makes me think he's trying to convince himself.
Any way, this guys logic is terrible, his assumptions are wrong and his examples are bogus.
I hate it when these people try to compare these puny little engines with the 302, as if the only difference was 3ci.
Lets see: 305ci. SBC; crappy 2 bolt main small bore block, cast crank, small rods, cast pistons, heads that are barely adequate, with small runners and small valves, whimpy hydraulic cam, small runner TBI, runs out of steam at 5500rpm. HP, I'll be generous, 190.
1969, 302ci. SBC; beefy "350" four bolt main block, forged crank, rods, pistons, largest runner heads available at the time with 2.02 and 1.60 valves, high lift and duration solid lifter cam, large runner aluminum intake and 4 barrel carb., pulls strong through 7000rpm. HP, under rated, many claimed 400+ at 7000rpm.
Stroking the engine is another bogus example. If you stroke a 302 and make it a 350. Is it still a 302??
Saying the TBI is a better system than the TPI, is like saying a distributor is better then a coil on plug system. This guy is just plain nuts.
Having said this, does that mean you shouldn't buy a 305 or hot rod one? No! If I was starting out and could only afford a nice 3rd Gen. with a 305, you can bet I'd be doing what I could to make it faster. Does this mean I think it's better than a 383? No!!!!!!!
Old Sep 20, 2005 | 12:53 PM
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Re: So is any of this 305 stuff true?

No one here has heard of my $900 upgrade to the Feeble305? It started out as the original '84 L69 h.o. engine. In fact, I sold it just this summer for $700 to go into an IROC.

Here's the Feeble305 doing a 14.04 at 101 MPH.
Here's the cam sound.

Before pulling the motor, it put down 262 RWHP at 5000 RPM. Probably would have done better too, had it not been for my overcamming it on the last cam swap. Still, that's around 308 at the crank.

However, it was a carbuerated application. This guy that is quoted is a L03 TBI apostle preaching the religion of 305 CID throttle body injection. It's superior to carbuerators ONLY for fuel control at less than optimal conditions like cold start, off-idle, and cruise. It's still a wet manifold design and still suffers the shortcomings of wet manifold designs like droplet deposition on manifold walls, fuel shear, and mixture variations from cylinder to cylinder. Add reversion from a big cam into the mix and the whole system gets awfully hard to tune right.

Sure, you can improve its performance, but with the same amount of effort you can improve the performance of a swapped-in 350 even more.

My personal rule of thumb: If you have a 305 and it doesn't need new pistons or a re-bore, fool with it. Otherwise, give it to metal salvage and move on.

Last edited by ws6transam; Sep 20, 2005 at 01:09 PM.



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