Is the 305 L98 Worth Building??
10-16-2005, 04:51 PM
#46
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Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 320
Re: Is the 305 L98 Worth Building??
Originally Posted by 83_z_fan
Not sure I follow you when you state unwise to stroke any engine.
10-16-2005, 07:03 PM
#47
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Location: MI,USA
Posts: 22
Re: Is the 305 L98 Worth Building??
Read what the title says he is "building". by that parts well they will be replaced or he wouldn't be building. For the dollar layout the stroker will yeild big dividends. More so then putting in a 350 less then a 383 though.
Any engine no matter if it is stock or built could use mods to help it run. The same mods done to it before build, work for it after the stroking.
You dont need any mods for that matter except the crank kit to build it and the original parts that were on it if budget is tight. Other then a rebuild kit as well.
Yes heads and intake, and headers (exhaust in your terms) work well on a stroked motor but they are not required.
As for the stock motor not being a good choice to go and stroke it been waiting for a feasible reason behind your thoughts.
Meaning before you try and talk someone out of one in the first place look at the idea with a clear mind.
Do you think when my 345 was built out of a 305 it was a major deal? The dealership at the time when the motor went had a 400 crank laying in the shop and it found its way in my motor for cost effectiveness for them. But in reality it gave the seat of the pants on helluva boost.
Funny thing was the monte had the same heads intake and quadra junk feed back carb sittin back on it when I originally bought it.
Only mod I did to it from there was a set of gears. 3.73's to be exact.
So how much you want out of a motor isnt always what you think you have to pay. Also a fullsize 85 g-body carbed 305 beatting a 5.0 5 speed mustang thing about it. Camaros had to have a 350 and they were sstill prone to getting theyre anuses kicked royally.
Beside in reality were arent talking about a 350 stroked to a 427 either are we we are talking a light very light stroke increase.
Any engine no matter if it is stock or built could use mods to help it run. The same mods done to it before build, work for it after the stroking.
You dont need any mods for that matter except the crank kit to build it and the original parts that were on it if budget is tight. Other then a rebuild kit as well.
Yes heads and intake, and headers (exhaust in your terms) work well on a stroked motor but they are not required.
As for the stock motor not being a good choice to go and stroke it been waiting for a feasible reason behind your thoughts.
Meaning before you try and talk someone out of one in the first place look at the idea with a clear mind.
Do you think when my 345 was built out of a 305 it was a major deal? The dealership at the time when the motor went had a 400 crank laying in the shop and it found its way in my motor for cost effectiveness for them. But in reality it gave the seat of the pants on helluva boost.
Funny thing was the monte had the same heads intake and quadra junk feed back carb sittin back on it when I originally bought it.
Only mod I did to it from there was a set of gears. 3.73's to be exact.
So how much you want out of a motor isnt always what you think you have to pay. Also a fullsize 85 g-body carbed 305 beatting a 5.0 5 speed mustang thing about it. Camaros had to have a 350 and they were sstill prone to getting theyre anuses kicked royally.
Beside in reality were arent talking about a 350 stroked to a 427 either are we we are talking a light very light stroke increase.
Last edited by 83_z_fan; 10-16-2005 at 07:10 PM.
10-16-2005, 09:19 PM
#48
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Miami, Fl
Posts: 44
Re: Is the 305 L98 Worth Building??
Ever ride in one before? Stroke too long my fuzzy a$$. If you do sometime it will open your eyes a lil. They make a kit for a reason to do same thing.
The stroke vs. bore ratio of a 305 is purely math. It will not change by giving someone a ride. Regardless, the cost of stroking a 305 is much more money than a 350 would be, and will yield less results. The 305 already has valve shrouding problems due to the small bore, as was mentioned before. Ever see a 305 running AFR heads?
If a 305 had a 4 inch bore, but a shorter stroke, then stroking it would be more meaningful.
10-17-2005, 07:35 AM
#49
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 320
Re: Is the 305 L98 Worth Building??
Originally Posted by 83_z_fan
As for the stock motor not being a good choice to go and stroke it been waiting for a feasible reason behind your thoughts.
Meaning before you try and talk someone out of one in the first place look at the idea with a clear mind.
Do you think when my 345 was built out of a 305 it was a major deal? The dealership at the time when the motor went had a 400 crank laying in the shop and it found its way in my motor for cost effectiveness for them. But in reality it gave the seat of the pants on helluva boost.
Meaning before you try and talk someone out of one in the first place look at the idea with a clear mind.
Do you think when my 345 was built out of a 305 it was a major deal? The dealership at the time when the motor went had a 400 crank laying in the shop and it found its way in my motor for cost effectiveness for them. But in reality it gave the seat of the pants on helluva boost.
As for cost effectiveness, not everyone has their engine rebuilt under warranty and the dealer just happens to have a spare 400 crank + rods + time to have the block clearanced. Most of the time all of that stuff needs to be payed for out of our pockets (Plus fixing whatever caused the engine to blow to begine with).
In conclusion, I am only saying that under normal circumstances it is more cost effective per horsepower gained to swap in a 350 than it is to stroke the 305. The 305 can be a fun engine and if you want to do something different then by all means build it and stroke it. Most people on these boards are on a budget however so my advice is typically geared toward getting the most bang for the buck.
10-17-2005, 10:56 AM
#50
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Location: MI,USA
Posts: 22
Re: Is the 305 L98 Worth Building??
Originally Posted by 92blue
Just because someone makes a kit, it doesn't mean its a good idea, or that its worth the cost. Sure bout that one? If no one did the swap in the first place stroked motors would have dies instead of being built out of garages daily. FOr many a racing event let alone Daily Drivers.
The stroke vs. bore ratio of a 305 is purely math.
It will not change by giving someone a ride. Really? thought my extra seat filled with 200 lbs would change that.
Regardless, the cost of stroking a 305 is much more money than a 350 would be, and will yield less results. Cost is still the same do you think a 400 crank says I will cost more to go in a 305?
The 305 already has valve shrouding problems due to the small bore, as was mentioned before. It has small problems but not enough to cause major problems. Relieve the head of excess material on the ports both intake and exhaust if your that concerned.
Ever see a 305 running AFR heads? Yes wanna ride? But then I'd gain the 200lbs lol.
If a 305 had a 4 inch bore, but a shorter stroke, then stroking it would be more meaningful. Seeing we have a hard time keeping up with 5.0 equipped cars let alone 347 stroked wondering If they thought the same thing before stroking it? I realize a ford isnt the same but given their kits are
The stroke vs. bore ratio of a 305 is purely math.
It will not change by giving someone a ride. Really? thought my extra seat filled with 200 lbs would change that.
Regardless, the cost of stroking a 305 is much more money than a 350 would be, and will yield less results. Cost is still the same do you think a 400 crank says I will cost more to go in a 305?
The 305 already has valve shrouding problems due to the small bore, as was mentioned before. It has small problems but not enough to cause major problems. Relieve the head of excess material on the ports both intake and exhaust if your that concerned.
Ever see a 305 running AFR heads? Yes wanna ride? But then I'd gain the 200lbs lol.
If a 305 had a 4 inch bore, but a shorter stroke, then stroking it would be more meaningful. Seeing we have a hard time keeping up with 5.0 equipped cars let alone 347 stroked wondering If they thought the same thing before stroking it? I realize a ford isnt the same but given their kits are
Hmmmm looks better answered this way. Yes a 350 would be a kick in the pants over a 305 but then read the top of the post again it was aimed at the 305 even though wrong series was given.
Also was wrong on displacement at end of swap it isnt 340 it's 334. Or very close to that but that is determined buy how much you wanna bore to or stroke mine was at .060 over. Yes very lucky dealer had the extra parts, and I bought a extended warranty, unlucky in the fact I only had the car 5 days when it started burning oil and went 2 months without it. Though the loaned me a S-10 till it was done.
I know 334 dont sound like much but as 91 stated it does move torque down lower and it winds fast. Read as a great 1/4 er. Still maintains power thru the curve and wiegh a lot less then a bigger bore motor.
As for math goes the stroked 305 by numerics makes a hell of a lot more sense then what gm originally made. Run the numbers again.
But then again google 334 and you may see the same thing said.
383 fanactics hate the old 377 which is just junk. Big block fans hate anything thats sbc and nuts hate squirrels. Just another fact of life.
Oh last thing a grand is not a big expense for the kit when it includes rods piston and crank already to assemble DId I mention balanced at that?.
http://www.dallasexportsales.com/RA334.htm
Also another good link http://www.amotion.com/csb.html
Last edited by 83_z_fan; 10-17-2005 at 11:32 AM.
10-17-2005, 01:36 PM
#51
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Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Albion, Nebraska, USA
Posts: 274
Re: Is the 305 L98 Worth Building??
Originally Posted by 83_z_fan
Still maintains power thru the curve and wiegh a lot less then a bigger bore motor.
Martin
10-17-2005, 01:57 PM
#52
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10-17-2005, 04:02 PM
#53
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Location: Albion, Nebraska, USA
Posts: 274
Re: Is the 305 L98 Worth Building??
No, that is a bad read, full of idiots. Thety are comparing a Gen III Small Block with Gen I and Gen II engines. Yes, you can make a 427 out of an LS1. Yes, you can make a 427 out of a 400 Gen I block. No, you can not make a 427 out of a Gen I 350 block. Yes, you can make a 454 c.i. Gen I, but with an aftermarket tall deck block, not with any 305 block.
Martin
Martin
10-17-2005, 07:57 PM
#54
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Re: Is the 305 L98 Worth Building??
Originally Posted by 82355
No, that is a bad read, full of idiots. Thety are comparing a Gen III Small Block with Gen I and Gen II engines. Yes, you can make a 427 out of an LS1. Yes, you can make a 427 out of a 400 Gen I block. No, you can not make a 427 out of a Gen I 350 block. Yes, you can make a 454 c.i. Gen I, but with an aftermarket tall deck block, not with any 305 block.
Martin
Martin
10-17-2005, 10:23 PM
#55
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Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Albion, Nebraska, USA
Posts: 274
Re: Is the 305 L98 Worth Building??
That is because I hate seeing people pass on bad/incorrect info. There are people on here that don't know any better and are looking for truthful advice. So they take someones misguided incorect advice and they follow it. Now if people don't know what they are talking about, they shouldn't post info trying to look like they do for that reason. Don't worry, bad info runs rampant in the third gen world, it sometimes makes me embarrased to own/appreciate these cars. That is why I always sound angry and talk down to these people, to help the people that are trying to learn.
Martin
Martin
10-18-2005, 12:22 PM
#56
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Miami, Fl
Posts: 44
Re: Is the 305 L98 Worth Building??
83_z_fan, you've missed the whole point. The way you replied to my post kinda makes me look like I'm schizo....
Anyway....I'll go through things again in order.
No one is debating what the original poster intended. Everyone is debating whether it would be wise to stroke a 305.
If we were to go by "if someone makes it, it would be worth the cost / be a good idea", then I'll start making $500 kits to stroke a Briggs and Stratton 1/2 hp lawnmower. Do you really think thats going to be 1) a good idea? 2) worth the expense?
Just because everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon and do something doesn't mean anything. If that was indicative of the truth, no one would bother buyin heads, and everyone would be running a $50 electric supercharger. See how that line of reasoning doesn't work?
Spending a grand to go from a 305 to a 334 is a better investment than $300 for a 350? How is a smaller displacement engine (with valve shrouding problems due to design) going to be a good thing? The only thing to gain is better fuel consumption, and the fact that you are doing something different than anyone else.
There is no sense in saying that a stroked 305 is going to weigh significantly less than a larger SBC. Wheres the difference? Only thing I can think of is the difference in weight due to piston size. How big is that?
A 334 makes a good 1/4 setup? Compared to what? Theres not too much it would be better than.
The problem with valve shrouding on a 305 is NOT the heads, but the bore size. With any decent sized valves, you will come awfully close to the cylinder wall. Are you going to grind away at the cylinder wall? Thats the problem with the 305. This problem goes away on the old 302s, a 350, etc... Ford 5.0s have a larger bore than a Chevy 5.0, hence its alot more justifiable in their case.
Anyway....I'll go through things again in order.
No one is debating what the original poster intended. Everyone is debating whether it would be wise to stroke a 305.
If we were to go by "if someone makes it, it would be worth the cost / be a good idea", then I'll start making $500 kits to stroke a Briggs and Stratton 1/2 hp lawnmower. Do you really think thats going to be 1) a good idea? 2) worth the expense?
Just because everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon and do something doesn't mean anything. If that was indicative of the truth, no one would bother buyin heads, and everyone would be running a $50 electric supercharger. See how that line of reasoning doesn't work?
Spending a grand to go from a 305 to a 334 is a better investment than $300 for a 350? How is a smaller displacement engine (with valve shrouding problems due to design) going to be a good thing? The only thing to gain is better fuel consumption, and the fact that you are doing something different than anyone else.
There is no sense in saying that a stroked 305 is going to weigh significantly less than a larger SBC. Wheres the difference? Only thing I can think of is the difference in weight due to piston size. How big is that?
A 334 makes a good 1/4 setup? Compared to what? Theres not too much it would be better than.
The problem with valve shrouding on a 305 is NOT the heads, but the bore size. With any decent sized valves, you will come awfully close to the cylinder wall. Are you going to grind away at the cylinder wall? Thats the problem with the 305. This problem goes away on the old 302s, a 350, etc... Ford 5.0s have a larger bore than a Chevy 5.0, hence its alot more justifiable in their case.
10-19-2005, 11:31 AM
#57
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 685
Re: Is the 305 L98 Worth Building??
The 335 CI engine is a good path, many people have added the 3.75" crank and been happy. People who like "square" engines like the 402 (4" by 4") should like the 335 since it is 3.76" by 3.75". There are plenty of 335/340s out there making power with aluminum heads and an aftermarket intake.
10-19-2005, 03:08 PM
#58
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 324
Re: Is the 305 L98 Worth Building??
Lots of info in here. Thanks everyone for your replies. But it seems hard to make power with the 305 without spending big bucks due to the bad design. My friend wants to be different in that he wants to beat cars and then say, "and I only have a 305." From the posts here I see that an intake change is necessary. Stroking is cool too, but the money and the fact that my friend wants to keep it a 305 make it a no go. I'll keep reading up on here to see what more info is passed.
Thanks guys.
Thanks guys.
10-22-2005, 01:21 AM
#59
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: MI,USA
Posts: 22
Re: Is the 305 L98 Worth Building??
Originally Posted by 82355
That is because I hate seeing people pass on bad/incorrect info. There are people on here that don't know any better and are looking for truthful advice. So they take someones misguided incorect advice and they follow it. Now if people don't know what they are talking about, they shouldn't post info trying to look like they do for that reason. Don't worry, bad info runs rampant in the third gen world, it sometimes makes me embarrased to own/appreciate these cars. That is why I always sound angry and talk down to these people, to help the people that are trying to learn.
Martin
Martin
Last edited by 83_z_fan; 10-22-2005 at 01:38 AM.
10-22-2005, 01:36 AM
#60
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: MI,USA
Posts: 22
Re: Is the 305 L98 Worth Building??
Originally Posted by 92blue
83_z_fan, you've missed the whole point. The way you replied to my post kinda makes me look like I'm schizo....
Anyway....I'll go through things again in order.
No one is debating what the original poster intended. Everyone is debating whether it would be wise to stroke a 305.
If we were to go by "if someone makes it, it would be worth the cost / be a good idea", then I'll start making $500 kits to stroke a Briggs and Stratton 1/2 hp lawnmower. Do you really think thats going to be 1) a good idea? 2) worth the expense?
Just because everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon and do something doesn't mean anything. If that was indicative of the truth, no one would bother buyin heads, and everyone would be running a $50 electric supercharger. See how that line of reasoning doesn't work?
Spending a grand to go from a 305 to a 334 is a better investment than $300 for a 350? How is a smaller displacement engine (with valve shrouding problems due to design) going to be a good thing? The only thing to gain is better fuel consumption, and the fact that you are doing something different than anyone else.
There is no sense in saying that a stroked 305 is going to weigh significantly less than a larger SBC. Wheres the difference? Only thing I can think of is the difference in weight due to piston size. How big is that?
A 334 makes a good 1/4 setup? Compared to what? Theres not too much it would be better than.
The problem with valve shrouding on a 305 is NOT the heads, but the bore size. With any decent sized valves, you will come awfully close to the cylinder wall. Are you going to grind away at the cylinder wall? Thats the problem with the 305. This problem goes away on the old 302s, a 350, etc... Ford 5.0s have a larger bore than a Chevy 5.0, hence its alot more justifiable in their case.
Anyway....I'll go through things again in order.
No one is debating what the original poster intended. Everyone is debating whether it would be wise to stroke a 305.
If we were to go by "if someone makes it, it would be worth the cost / be a good idea", then I'll start making $500 kits to stroke a Briggs and Stratton 1/2 hp lawnmower. Do you really think thats going to be 1) a good idea? 2) worth the expense?
Just because everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon and do something doesn't mean anything. If that was indicative of the truth, no one would bother buyin heads, and everyone would be running a $50 electric supercharger. See how that line of reasoning doesn't work?
Spending a grand to go from a 305 to a 334 is a better investment than $300 for a 350? How is a smaller displacement engine (with valve shrouding problems due to design) going to be a good thing? The only thing to gain is better fuel consumption, and the fact that you are doing something different than anyone else.
There is no sense in saying that a stroked 305 is going to weigh significantly less than a larger SBC. Wheres the difference? Only thing I can think of is the difference in weight due to piston size. How big is that?
A 334 makes a good 1/4 setup? Compared to what? Theres not too much it would be better than.
The problem with valve shrouding on a 305 is NOT the heads, but the bore size. With any decent sized valves, you will come awfully close to the cylinder wall. Are you going to grind away at the cylinder wall? Thats the problem with the 305. This problem goes away on the old 302s, a 350, etc... Ford 5.0s have a larger bore than a Chevy 5.0, hence its alot more justifiable in their case.
As for 1000 on a stroke kit for the 305 compared to a junkyard jewel 350 I'll take the stroker. Shocked you wouldnt either point being---- Because the 305 would be a rebuild. Sure think that that would run better any day dont you? Plus the fact the parts I showed in the post included Keith Black instead of stock standard.
In them regards alone it's getting alot clearer isn't it?
Now for the stroker 305 honestly do you think it is a junk idea? obviously thats your choice. I am not saying buy the thing yourself he asked opinions. And they all vary. Funny thing was he threw the 350 thought away fast. That given I gave another option seeing it is based on a 305. which weight wise yes is damn close to the 350 but alot lighter then any of the other combo's. As for weight yes add volume weight does increase. That should be a given. Do it enough and there is a significant increase.