[Suspension] Pedders XA COILOVERS FOR THE CAMARO
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 184
We completed a successful fit of our Xa coilovers to the Camaro Black at the Milford Proving Grounds on Monday. Woo Hoo they fit!!!!
The coilovers are good to go. We need to make revisions to our sways. The T2 Front and rear Coils are also good to go. In short, it was a GREAT DAY at Milford. I wish I could tell you more about what I saw while I was there. GM has financial woes, but they are still doing amazing work at the Milford Proving Grounds with some of the most dedicated car guys in the world!
The short answer is about eight weeks.
The coilovers are good to go. We need to make revisions to our sways. The T2 Front and rear Coils are also good to go. In short, it was a GREAT DAY at Milford. I wish I could tell you more about what I saw while I was there. GM has financial woes, but they are still doing amazing work at the Milford Proving Grounds with some of the most dedicated car guys in the world!
The short answer is about eight weeks.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 184
7.5 weeks 
We did the final fit at Milford about two weeks ago and that is when we released the units for production. They fit perfectly, as expected, on the Camaro Black. Dale Jr's and the Red SS will be on our Xa Coilovers shortly. I'll be back at Milford this Thursday to do some follow up work.
We did the final fit at Milford about two weeks ago and that is when we released the units for production. They fit perfectly, as expected, on the Camaro Black. Dale Jr's and the Red SS will be on our Xa Coilovers shortly. I'll be back at Milford this Thursday to do some follow up work.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 184
For show cars, the coilover is a perfect solution. No matter what height coil the manufacturing produces based on the design request it will be wrong for the designer. With a height adjustable coilover the Show Car can be set to the exact height the designer requests -- no matter how often they change their minds.
Aside from that, there were some fitment issues with the coils they were using. That is no surprise for one off special request product. That is absolutely no reflection on the companies that made the coils. We are very pleased to have been asked to contribute to the Camaro project.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 306
the real reason is Pete and me wanted to go to Milford and see what they got. LOL.
We accomplished 2 things: helped GM out of a jam. this opened up soe very big doors for us. More on that later. But it did give us a chance test the fitment. which was critical and worth the efforts for sure
mike
dms
We accomplished 2 things: helped GM out of a jam. this opened up soe very big doors for us. More on that later. But it did give us a chance test the fitment. which was critical and worth the efforts for sure
mike
dms
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,482
From: ohio
very cool. sounds like you guys saw some pretty sweet stuff there at milford. ok so about 7 weeks out before we receive our xa kits? good. im getting excited. my car is produced either today or possibly yesterday. i should get it by the end of the month. ill have some drive time with the factory components before they get swapped out. this will work out perfectly.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,482
From: ohio
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 184
We are slow on delivery, because of the late release of the Camaro by GM. We held up production until we could get under a couple of production vehicles to validate our fitment and our high profile installations with a couple of Dealers and GM at the Proving Grounds were great opportunities for this. The Xa coilovers fit perfectly, are produced and waiting for the boat to arrive in port.
Radius rod bushes are good to go.
Differential bushes are good to go.
Sway Bars are being revised for clearance.
Endlinks are good to go.
Sub-Frame Inserts are being revised
Trailing Arm Bushes are good to go.
Upper Control Arm Bushes are good to go.
We expect to have stock for all these bits when the first Pre-Order of Xa coilovers arrive. I think this summary covers most of your questions. Now I will make it even harder to wait. We have air freighted at considerable expense a handful of Xa coilovers for magazine cars with Nickey, Hennessy and Fesler Moss. With the Nickey car we did the fitment of the Xa coilovers, eXtreme Radius Rod Snubbers, eXtreme Rear Camber and Toe Adjusters and a Pedders alignment at the Autobahn Country Club in Joliet Illinois with TEAM Stradale. Our first test was to establish the base line performance with stock tires, wheels, suspension and alignment. The head of the Autobahn Track Driving School Francesco Abate was our designated driver. Typically he is driving track prepared BMWs and Ferrari's. Last Thursday it was a Camaro SS. his initial drive was solid, but a bit uncertain. There is substantial lean and roll and a significant amount of understeer resulting in solid lap times.
We brought the Camaro into the shop and installed the VERY first 2010 Camaro Radius Rod Snubbers originally developed for GM High Performance. Unfortunately that project was been dropped, but we still have the parts so the Nickey Camaro was a logical place to test them. They take up space and remove compliance making the radius rod bush eXtremely stable. This part is one of the very few bits Pedders makes that will be sold for Track Use Only.
Installing the Xa Coilovers alters the spring rates with 8Kg coils up front and 10Kg coils in the rear. Damping set to full soft starts where the OEM dampers end. We tested at 25 or 5 off full hard upfront and 15 or in the middle in the rear. This was done to minimise the push created by vehicle balance and a staggered set of OEM tires. The alignment is the same as the one we use on my four door Camaro / Pontiac G8.
Front
Camber -2.2
Castor -- it is fixed from the factory on the Camaro -- well at least until Pedders releases front Castor eXtreme Adjuster Bolts and Washers.
Toe -.25
Rear
Camber -1.1
Toe 0.03/0.02
Thrust Angle 0
We lowered the Camaro SS quite a bit. I am waiting on some data from Francesco, but from memory we dropped the front 30mm and the rear 40mm. The transformation on the vehicle was incredible. Our first lap, Francesco was uncomfortable. The car just didn't feel right. Then we noticed that the Traction Control had not been turned off. While still running at speed, I turned off the traction control. The car felt more than alright. It felt fast. It still had too much push which can be further reduced by lowering the rear. That was my fault. Being a Nickey car, it should look like Nickey Camaro with the traditional Muscle Car stance so I left it a bit too tall. We need to bring the rear of the vehicle down another 15mm. Moving to 10.x20 rims all around with something like 295/35/20/XL or 305/30/20/XL should balance out the car with more grip up front and be balanced front to rear, but I digress.
The Nickey Camaro with Pedders Radius Rob Snubbers, Xa coilovers and a Pedders Alignment was a blistering 2.41 seconds per lap faster on our worst Pedderised lap. We feel that with ONLY suspension upgrades to include sub-frame bush inserts, upper rear control arm bushes, trailing arm bushes, bars and endlinks we have another 1.5 seconds. That would mean you can take a Camaro SS and find 4 bullet proof reliable seconds with nothing more than a few suspension upgrades. There is no motor upgrade that could deliver this improvement, because we were at the limits of the OEM suspension with OEM RWHP. Adding HP would do nothing for lap times.
As for Francesco, he is now an American Muscle Car addict. As we continue to work with Nickey Chicago at the Autobahn with Francesco we will continue to update this thread. Our next session should take place in about a month when we finish the suspension with our revised bits. Following that, will be a matched set of tires and wheels. Following that will be more RWHP. As time allows, we will be working with Hennessy and Fesler Moss on similar projects that will all receive national media attention.
Orders and retail sales of our Xa coilovers have been staggering. I never expected to sell coilovers in this volume for the Camaro, GTO, G8 and other platforms. Volume is good. Because we are running production at this level we are LOWERING the retail price for our coilovers across the board. They will not be as low as the December Dollar Days, but they will be going down based on volume. I can't thank the online communities that are the driving force behind these orders enough. We haven't had delivery on the first pre-order and we have already sold out the second order and while neither the first of second orders have shipped, we are on our third order with a production schedule that is eXtremely different than it looked 60 days ago.
Aside from that, I don't have much new information to share with you.
What a great parking place. These are the rides that normally would be found in the Stradle Stable.
What happened to the Castor Adjustment slot on the Camaro ZETA II chassis?
The front Camaro Xa Coilover is hung,
We talked about the Camaro project so much that we were pressed for time to complete our work and get out on the track for session II. It was all hands on deck to get the job done.
The gold rear strut washer goes on top and the silver washer on the bottom.
The verys first set of eXtreme Rear Camber and Toe Adjusters is installed on the Nickey Camaro. There are benefits to being close to Pedders Head Office.
TEAM Stradale has great facilities. Thier state-of-the-art drive on alignment rack made the Peddersised Camaro alignment a breeze. It must be something iabout Illinois becuase the first drive on alignment rack I used was at Waukegan Tire and they have four of them.
Pictured from Left to Right: Pete Basica Pedders USA, Stafano Bimbi Nickey Chicago and Francesco Abate TEAM Stradale. Yes, you have to love Italian food to hand with this crew.
Radius rod bushes are good to go.
Differential bushes are good to go.
Sway Bars are being revised for clearance.
Endlinks are good to go.
Sub-Frame Inserts are being revised
Trailing Arm Bushes are good to go.
Upper Control Arm Bushes are good to go.
We expect to have stock for all these bits when the first Pre-Order of Xa coilovers arrive. I think this summary covers most of your questions. Now I will make it even harder to wait. We have air freighted at considerable expense a handful of Xa coilovers for magazine cars with Nickey, Hennessy and Fesler Moss. With the Nickey car we did the fitment of the Xa coilovers, eXtreme Radius Rod Snubbers, eXtreme Rear Camber and Toe Adjusters and a Pedders alignment at the Autobahn Country Club in Joliet Illinois with TEAM Stradale. Our first test was to establish the base line performance with stock tires, wheels, suspension and alignment. The head of the Autobahn Track Driving School Francesco Abate was our designated driver. Typically he is driving track prepared BMWs and Ferrari's. Last Thursday it was a Camaro SS. his initial drive was solid, but a bit uncertain. There is substantial lean and roll and a significant amount of understeer resulting in solid lap times.
We brought the Camaro into the shop and installed the VERY first 2010 Camaro Radius Rod Snubbers originally developed for GM High Performance. Unfortunately that project was been dropped, but we still have the parts so the Nickey Camaro was a logical place to test them. They take up space and remove compliance making the radius rod bush eXtremely stable. This part is one of the very few bits Pedders makes that will be sold for Track Use Only.
Installing the Xa Coilovers alters the spring rates with 8Kg coils up front and 10Kg coils in the rear. Damping set to full soft starts where the OEM dampers end. We tested at 25 or 5 off full hard upfront and 15 or in the middle in the rear. This was done to minimise the push created by vehicle balance and a staggered set of OEM tires. The alignment is the same as the one we use on my four door Camaro / Pontiac G8.
Front
Camber -2.2
Castor -- it is fixed from the factory on the Camaro -- well at least until Pedders releases front Castor eXtreme Adjuster Bolts and Washers.
Toe -.25
Rear
Camber -1.1
Toe 0.03/0.02
Thrust Angle 0
We lowered the Camaro SS quite a bit. I am waiting on some data from Francesco, but from memory we dropped the front 30mm and the rear 40mm. The transformation on the vehicle was incredible. Our first lap, Francesco was uncomfortable. The car just didn't feel right. Then we noticed that the Traction Control had not been turned off. While still running at speed, I turned off the traction control. The car felt more than alright. It felt fast. It still had too much push which can be further reduced by lowering the rear. That was my fault. Being a Nickey car, it should look like Nickey Camaro with the traditional Muscle Car stance so I left it a bit too tall. We need to bring the rear of the vehicle down another 15mm. Moving to 10.x20 rims all around with something like 295/35/20/XL or 305/30/20/XL should balance out the car with more grip up front and be balanced front to rear, but I digress.
The Nickey Camaro with Pedders Radius Rob Snubbers, Xa coilovers and a Pedders Alignment was a blistering 2.41 seconds per lap faster on our worst Pedderised lap. We feel that with ONLY suspension upgrades to include sub-frame bush inserts, upper rear control arm bushes, trailing arm bushes, bars and endlinks we have another 1.5 seconds. That would mean you can take a Camaro SS and find 4 bullet proof reliable seconds with nothing more than a few suspension upgrades. There is no motor upgrade that could deliver this improvement, because we were at the limits of the OEM suspension with OEM RWHP. Adding HP would do nothing for lap times.
As for Francesco, he is now an American Muscle Car addict. As we continue to work with Nickey Chicago at the Autobahn with Francesco we will continue to update this thread. Our next session should take place in about a month when we finish the suspension with our revised bits. Following that, will be a matched set of tires and wheels. Following that will be more RWHP. As time allows, we will be working with Hennessy and Fesler Moss on similar projects that will all receive national media attention.
Orders and retail sales of our Xa coilovers have been staggering. I never expected to sell coilovers in this volume for the Camaro, GTO, G8 and other platforms. Volume is good. Because we are running production at this level we are LOWERING the retail price for our coilovers across the board. They will not be as low as the December Dollar Days, but they will be going down based on volume. I can't thank the online communities that are the driving force behind these orders enough. We haven't had delivery on the first pre-order and we have already sold out the second order and while neither the first of second orders have shipped, we are on our third order with a production schedule that is eXtremely different than it looked 60 days ago.
Aside from that, I don't have much new information to share with you.
What a great parking place. These are the rides that normally would be found in the Stradle Stable.
What happened to the Castor Adjustment slot on the Camaro ZETA II chassis?
The front Camaro Xa Coilover is hung,
We talked about the Camaro project so much that we were pressed for time to complete our work and get out on the track for session II. It was all hands on deck to get the job done.
The gold rear strut washer goes on top and the silver washer on the bottom.
The verys first set of eXtreme Rear Camber and Toe Adjusters is installed on the Nickey Camaro. There are benefits to being close to Pedders Head Office.
TEAM Stradale has great facilities. Thier state-of-the-art drive on alignment rack made the Peddersised Camaro alignment a breeze. It must be something iabout Illinois becuase the first drive on alignment rack I used was at Waukegan Tire and they have four of them.
Pictured from Left to Right: Pete Basica Pedders USA, Stafano Bimbi Nickey Chicago and Francesco Abate TEAM Stradale. Yes, you have to love Italian food to hand with this crew.
Last edited by Justice Pete; Jun 8, 2009 at 07:27 PM.
