NO MT with AFM ?? No V8 Camaros with MT ??
03-16-2008, 11:36 AM
#1
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NO MT with AFM ?? No V8 Camaros with MT ??
Just wondering if the Camaro will have a MT with AFM.
[from another forum]
The G8 GT is NOT going to have a MT.
Why?
AFM requires communication with the transmission to work... when you shift your own gears, the AFM system can't respond fast enough and would get screwed up. This has been mentioned before in some of the interviews... The GT won't ever have a MT.
The LS3 does NOT have AFM and therefore works well with a MT.
Peper pointed out that both engines will offer cylinder-deactivation technology to shut off either three or four cylinders when they aren’t needed, to conserve gas.
The G8 GT is NOT going to have a MT.
Why?
AFM requires communication with the transmission to work... when you shift your own gears, the AFM system can't respond fast enough and would get screwed up. This has been mentioned before in some of the interviews... The GT won't ever have a MT.
The LS3 does NOT have AFM and therefore works well with a MT.
03-16-2008, 01:05 PM
#3
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I want to call BS. AFM has nothing to do with the Tranny. And the G8 is getting a MT last time I heard...it's just coming later.
All AFM does, is when the load is light enough (like stead highway cruising) the ECM shuts down the valvetrain (via special lifters), and spark of 4 cyllinders in V8's. When it they need to be reactivated, due to load, the engine just turns them back on. It's imperceptible. I'm certain the engine controller will be outfitted with paramaters for when the clutch is disengaged (i.e. NO load on engine, etc).
The LS3 does not have AFM because 'vette owners really didn't want it. Or weren't concerned with it. Or so I hear.
That's not true - the quote. AFM works fine with a MT.
All AFM does, is when the load is light enough (like stead highway cruising) the ECM shuts down the valvetrain (via special lifters), and spark of 4 cyllinders in V8's. When it they need to be reactivated, due to load, the engine just turns them back on. It's imperceptible. I'm certain the engine controller will be outfitted with paramaters for when the clutch is disengaged (i.e. NO load on engine, etc).
The LS3 does not have AFM because 'vette owners really didn't want it. Or weren't concerned with it. Or so I hear.
That's not true - the quote. AFM works fine with a MT.
Last edited by Dragoneye; 03-16-2008 at 02:16 PM.
03-16-2008, 03:58 PM
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ooh, damn. Hey - I wasn't saying that YOU were full of bs. I just re-read my post...and that's what it sounds like. I hope you didn't take it that way.
Anyways, MT w/ AFM....okay. So you caught me with my pants down. There are none.
But has it not been confirmed numerous time already that the G8 will be available with a manual tranny later this year?
Has it not been 99% confirmed that Camaro will have choice of V8/V6, manual or Auto-tranny. And the V8 will have AFM?
All I'm saying - is that I've read over how AFM works, check this link out: http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en...Car/08_L76.doc
It's GM's writeup of the L76 in the G8. It goes into great detail how AFM works (just short of measurements and part numbers
)...and there's nothing about the transmission.
So there's no reason to worry that the Camaro V8 won't be available with a manual.
Anyways, MT w/ AFM....okay. So you caught me with my pants down. There are none.
But has it not been confirmed numerous time already that the G8 will be available with a manual tranny later this year?
Has it not been 99% confirmed that Camaro will have choice of V8/V6, manual or Auto-tranny. And the V8 will have AFM?
All I'm saying - is that I've read over how AFM works, check this link out: http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en...Car/08_L76.doc
It's GM's writeup of the L76 in the G8. It goes into great detail how AFM works (just short of measurements and part numbers
)...and there's nothing about the transmission. So there's no reason to worry that the Camaro V8 won't be available with a manual.
03-16-2008, 08:16 PM
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Has anyone seen what the 2009 G8 GXP is going to have though?
Quoted from Leftlanenews.com :
Power comes from a 6.2-liter LS3 small-block V8 engine delivering 402 horsepower and 402 pound-feet of torque. This engine is the newest member of GM's small-block V-8 family. It features a revised, larger-bore cylinder block, high-flow, L92-style cylinder heads; larger-diameter pistons; unique camshaft and camshaft timing; revised valvetrain with offset intake rocker arms; high-flow intake manifold; and high-flow fuel injectors.
The LS3 engine has an aluminum cylinder block with cast-in-place iron cylinder liners. Larger bores help create a 376-cubic-inch displacement. The block casting also features revisions and machining in the bulkheads to enhance its strength and improve bay-to-bay breathing. New pistons were designed for high-rpm performance.
And if you read the whole article, you'll see that it will also be coming with a 6 speed Tremec in 2009. Things are only looking better for the Camaro IMO.
Quoted from Leftlanenews.com :
Power comes from a 6.2-liter LS3 small-block V8 engine delivering 402 horsepower and 402 pound-feet of torque. This engine is the newest member of GM's small-block V-8 family. It features a revised, larger-bore cylinder block, high-flow, L92-style cylinder heads; larger-diameter pistons; unique camshaft and camshaft timing; revised valvetrain with offset intake rocker arms; high-flow intake manifold; and high-flow fuel injectors.
The LS3 engine has an aluminum cylinder block with cast-in-place iron cylinder liners. Larger bores help create a 376-cubic-inch displacement. The block casting also features revisions and machining in the bulkheads to enhance its strength and improve bay-to-bay breathing. New pistons were designed for high-rpm performance.
And if you read the whole article, you'll see that it will also be coming with a 6 speed Tremec in 2009. Things are only looking better for the Camaro IMO.
03-16-2008, 09:02 PM
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03-17-2008, 07:23 PM
#12
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Well, since it has already been confirmed by Bob Lutz himself that the Camaro will be available with 6 speed manual and automatics (go through the archives and search Camaro on GM blogs) for BOTH the V6 AND V8, I think this thread is rather moot.
IF they were to make an AFM model, I would assume GM would take the route Honda does with the Accord V6 in the coupe. All automatic transmission models are used in conjunction with the AFM equipped version of the J35 Honda V6 engine, and all 6 speed manuals are used on non-AFM J35s.
The computing done to determine when the engine should engage AFM requires calculations on speed, gearing, and RPM. Since manual transmissions are still rather rudamentary machines (I've yet to see a computerized stickshift), I don't think AFM can work right with a stick shift.
IF they were to make an AFM model, I would assume GM would take the route Honda does with the Accord V6 in the coupe. All automatic transmission models are used in conjunction with the AFM equipped version of the J35 Honda V6 engine, and all 6 speed manuals are used on non-AFM J35s.
The computing done to determine when the engine should engage AFM requires calculations on speed, gearing, and RPM. Since manual transmissions are still rather rudamentary machines (I've yet to see a computerized stickshift), I don't think AFM can work right with a stick shift.
Last edited by fastball; 03-18-2008 at 04:19 AM.
03-17-2008, 09:56 PM
#13
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Has anyone seen what the 2009 G8 GXP is going to have though?
Quoted from Leftlanenews.com :
Power comes from a 6.2-liter LS3 small-block V8 engine delivering 402 horsepower and 402 pound-feet of torque. This engine is the newest member of GM's small-block V-8 family. It features a revised, larger-bore cylinder block, high-flow, L92-style cylinder heads; larger-diameter pistons; unique camshaft and camshaft timing; revised valvetrain with offset intake rocker arms; high-flow intake manifold; and high-flow fuel injectors.
The LS3 engine has an aluminum cylinder block with cast-in-place iron cylinder liners. Larger bores help create a 376-cubic-inch displacement. The block casting also features revisions and machining in the bulkheads to enhance its strength and improve bay-to-bay breathing. New pistons were designed for high-rpm performance.
And if you read the whole article, you'll see that it will also be coming with a 6 speed Tremec in 2009. Things are only looking better for the Camaro IMO.
Quoted from Leftlanenews.com :
Power comes from a 6.2-liter LS3 small-block V8 engine delivering 402 horsepower and 402 pound-feet of torque. This engine is the newest member of GM's small-block V-8 family. It features a revised, larger-bore cylinder block, high-flow, L92-style cylinder heads; larger-diameter pistons; unique camshaft and camshaft timing; revised valvetrain with offset intake rocker arms; high-flow intake manifold; and high-flow fuel injectors.
The LS3 engine has an aluminum cylinder block with cast-in-place iron cylinder liners. Larger bores help create a 376-cubic-inch displacement. The block casting also features revisions and machining in the bulkheads to enhance its strength and improve bay-to-bay breathing. New pistons were designed for high-rpm performance.
And if you read the whole article, you'll see that it will also be coming with a 6 speed Tremec in 2009. Things are only looking better for the Camaro IMO.
I can see GM following along the same lines with the camaro.
03-18-2008, 11:49 AM
#14
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FWIW I've heard from guys at Delphi that the AFM *can* work without the requirement of the automatic transmission - but that the gains in mpg are worthless and it switches in and out of AFM so much its a waste.
The automatics (espicially now with the fly-by-wire engine throttles) have enough control capability where they can more effectively calculate the ideal load/rpm/etc for the best fuel economy for an expected level of performance and a requested speed.
Manuals dont let the ecu control much of anything - much less how to optimize the reduced power output of the engine while AFM is active.
The automatics (espicially now with the fly-by-wire engine throttles) have enough control capability where they can more effectively calculate the ideal load/rpm/etc for the best fuel economy for an expected level of performance and a requested speed.
Manuals dont let the ecu control much of anything - much less how to optimize the reduced power output of the engine while AFM is active.
03-18-2008, 12:10 PM
#15
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The G8 GXP will have a manual trans option. I think someone actually posted a screen shot of the GM Dealer World page a while back, but I can't seem to find it. As far as AFM with the MT, I have no idea. I hope so, but it's not a deal killer for me. I'd like to see E85 compatibility along with AFM, but if I get one or the other or neither I'll be perfectly fine 
Last edited by supr_bikr_99; 03-18-2008 at 12:12 PM.