Hey guys - haven't been around much due to a job, and industry change - but I have heard some things about the automotive bailout stuff (and let's face it, who hasn't). My question for the guys here (and I'd start a poll if I could):

Is the Camaro dead?

Yeah, I know, it sounds like doom and gloom - but my concern isn't about GM bankruptcy entirely.....I'm also worried that to get the money to survive, GM's business plan will have to pass muster with the geniuses in congress and I don't see that group of uninformed dunderheads thinking that Camaro is a good idea - even if it makes money for GM. I can see them saying, "It's irresponsible", "It's a gas hog" - basically all the stereotypes that people on this board have been fighting their whole lives, and sadly, they are the ones that are making the decision to LOAN GM money.....it's not fair, it's not right, and it would be bad business - but I can't see congress approving a Camaro. Thoughts, anyone?

PS - I know GM has invested in the money to get the tooling, and all the preparation for production - but do people outside the automotive industry really think about that? Worse yet, do congressmen?

 

All the rules have changed. The economy has gone too far down hill. congress does not care about cars, just saving jobs and the economy.

The camaro will not be made to the scale we hoped. sadly.

 

Doom and gloom. If people are wanting to buy the car, GM will fill orders. It's too far along to simply cancel it.

 

I don't think you are getting the point. GM's existence is on the line. No GM=no Camaro. Now, if the people (govt) that hold the key to GM's survival decide that GM needs to kill sports/muscle cars in favor of 'green' vehicles then you can bet your a$$ that GM will be forced to stop making them. If GM tells them 'hell no' then they will be on their own. If GM has been telling the truth, then this will mean their demise.

I truly love my Camaro and very much want to buy the new Camaro when the economy is better. However I do not support the bailout. I believe they will be back for more and it will be harder to say no because we will loose the money owed to us (the taxpayer) from this bailout.

 

Sigh even people on this site call it a bailout. Our media sucks. You do realize they are asking for a loan, right? That will be paid back with interest. What's the dollar amount of taxes that GM has paid over the last 100 years I wonder, because now that they are in trouble they are getting the equivalent of the middle finger after all that money has been paid to uncle sam.

 

Even if they go bankrupt (which im doubting, they are just too huge to let fail, they will get their financing somehow), they will still operate under bankruptcy protection (for at least a little while).

Exactly, out of the 7000 orders that we know about already, how many of those do you think paid a non-refundable deposit?

 

For the most part there really is no such thing. However, IF they go under instead of bankrupt and the dealers go down with them, good luck at getting your (our) deposit(s) back...

I just don't see that scenario in the cards though.

 

I'm not sure that you grasp the seriousness of the matter.

 

They may file for bankruptcy. And it may start out as a Chapter 11 reorg. But it will quickly devolve into a Chapter 7 liquidation because they will never be able to secure debtor-in-possesion financing.
Besides that, studies have shown that people will not buy a vehicle from a bankrupt company.
BK is the last thing that they/we want.

 

Sure they will. We have never seen anything like this in the history of the markets. They won't have to secure loans from the banks under Chapter 11; they'll get the loan money directly from the Fed provided they show what Congress is asking for now- a business model showing how to achieve profitability.

 

They'll get the money when the politicians think they have made the CEOs grovel enough. These guys are really getting their rocks off on making the CEOs stay on their knees.
Add some of the other political changes with the California dems and they might not get the money until the pledge to meet California milage and pollution requirements, and lower the milage at which a vehicle pays the gas guzzler penalty. These goofballs might even want them to end manufacturing immediately on anything that gets less than 25 mpg before they give them the money. THEY want to run the company. Now that would be interesting would'nt it?

 

sounds like a better direction than they're going right now.

 

Well they need a loan to get bailed out so whatever GM trying to dress it up as it’s a bailout to me. Anyway it is something how one thing can change an entire outcome. Early this past summer we were looking at spy shots, then it came specifications, ordering, and now it has came to this. What a 360 turnaround. I thought nothing would make me persuade me not to get the Camaro. Now I am sitting on the sideline just waiting for the outcome. I am scared to get a Camaro and find out the company might not be in business a year later. So I just going to have to wait and see the outcome before I purchase anything from GM.

 

As I go through many of these sites I see all the talk and speculation of the end of the Camaro program. It sure does make all those reading go in panic mode.

Congress is powerful, but they are supposed to be very intelligent when it comes to business. I do not have much faith in them due to the level of crooked politicians we have in our governing body, but non the less they are intelligent enough to see the business the top three auto manufacturers are in and how they fair (competition wise) to the import companies of the world.

Deep down, they want our american businesses to succeed. They want competition, because it drives pricing and advancements in technology. They are not going to roll over without running the top three through the mud for the poor performance their companies have shown in the past ten years. It is only fair, right? Congress knows they are under a microscope by their constituates. They know if they are responsible for the top three closing shop they will not make it through the next elections.

With all that being said. We are in a lame duck session, and they do not want to give anything to the republicans that the republican party can claim responsibility for. GM and the others will need to hang on a little longer and the Dems will be there to help them.

GM will not be scrapping the CAMARO program. They have invested to much, and to stop would be to lose any chances of recouping their money from building the plant, re-tooling the plant, advertising spent and salaries to create and build the car.

GM will not close shop. They will go bankrupt (allowing them to reorganize their debt), or be bought out first. If they are bought out the company taking them over will more than likely continue the Camaro program. For those of you that have pre-ordered, you might be on the verge of getting the only Camaro built from GM while it was an american company (remember Budweiser?). I would be very SHOCKED if the Camaro was not produced and GM shut it's doors forever.

I could be wrong, but doubt it.

 

My thoughts are that GM should nto be given money from the government, they should be forced to significantly change the agreement that they have with the auto workers union and then eventually over time disolve the union. The union is what is killing GM and will eventually kill all other major companies in this country! Walmart is smart, they will never accept a union of workers in their company, it would destroy them...I have a Camaro on order and am hoping that it will be built and I can drive and enjoy it for many years. Worst case scenario for me is that the Camaro is never built (don't think that is going to happen though), and I purchase the exact Corvette I want for a ridiculously low price and I am happy as a pig in $hit