So I don’t have to repeat myself, here is the line up of models/engines that were mentioned to me a few months back and corresponding prices that I believe are going to be quite accurate.

Read through the first few pages of the thread


http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=448548

 

Well, just take a look around the automotive world where Toyota Avalons and Camry's pack 270-280hp V6's. If you get dusted by a Camry in your brand new Camaro, how do you think that will make you feel, especialy when you are packing maybe 250hp in a 3.9.
Id like to see the 3.6 DI motor making 300hp, and still priced in the mid 20's. That would make it attainable still, have something to go against cars like the 350Z and Mustang GT, while keeping price point right. Then have a 350hp engine, and then something in the 400hp+ club. 24k for V6 Camaro, 29k for 350hp Camaro, and 35k for 420hp Camaro.
The Mustang will be getting a hi-po V6 with the 3.5 Duratec by 2009, so GM needs to be ahead of the curve for production. Im sure that the 3.6 will already be slated for Zeta production and be engineerined and certified for production.

 

The base V6 needs to be priced as close to the V6 Mustang it can be, and offer more, to be competitive and reach 100K cars per year sold. If they price them out of their demographic, they will struggle. My concern is that GM couldn't sell the 400hp LS2 GTO for $32K, so I'm not quick to assume they can charge $35K for the nearly the same output in a Camaro. I realize the GTO wasn't properly marketed, but it points out the fact that many people won't spend that much money just to get 400hp.

Certainly the 'gotta have it' folks will snap them up at crazy prices at first, but what about 3 model years down the road? The Mustang sales have slowed considerably.

2009 prices due to inflation, etc. will affect my rationale, but I am hopeful that the car can arrive by next fall.

 

When you say the base Camaro should be priced as close to a V6 Mustang as possible, but offer more.....why is Camaro getting a better base motor ("more") than a 2005 Mustang such a buzzkill for alot of you?

And regarding the GTO, there are more issues at play than simply 400hp + $32K = no sale.

 

Because GM is playing catch-up, and Mustang has not waned in popularity, as did the Camaro. It's not a buzzkill if the power is better, but the price is the same. It's a buzzkill if GM tries to charge several thousand more. GM has to sell at least 3 V6's for every V8, same as the Mustang, if it's going to reach 100K per year in sales.

90% of Camaro/Mustang V6 buyers aren't going to care about a V6 having 300hp if it's pushing $30K out the door with options. That's reality. They are already buying the V6 because they don't care as much about performance, they just want the look and the sporty nature of the car at an affordable price. Those that want performance, buy the V8 if it's available. A 300hp V6 as an option seems pointless to me.

 

A 300HP V6 is nice, but not at the V8 price. I'd pay $1000-$1200 more for the 300HP V6 over the base 245HP, but not $3000. For that money I want a 5.3L V8 and 350HP.

I agree with what you said. V6 = those who want a sporty car, V8 = those who want affordable performance.

 

This is why.

If this HO V6 is an option or comes in at the same price as a V6 Stang, then great....

Otherwise Im seeing this resurrection being short lived. Take the fact that the Mustang already appears to more, for a variety of reasons, then make it so that the "I only want to look at it I don't care how fast it goes" people have the choice between a 20k Mustang and a 25k Camaro...

 

This has been the game plan as I am to understand it. Keep an optional HO v6 under the cost of the new Mustang GT, and make the base Camaro 6.2 the same price or maybe $1000 more than the GTs. Some of the freaking out on here has been vastly unnecessary.

 

Yeah. That is the reason behind why I made this post. I liked the idea of the HO v6. I hope that it still will be part of the lineup.

Why? What if GM offered 420hp at the same price point as the Mustang GT's? Hp didn't keep the GTO from selling.

First of all, there are enough people buying v6 Mustangs to tell me that there are some people out there who are not likely to care if the car came with a v8 option or not. Second. the idea was 2 v6s and 2 v8s in the lineup, not one.

 

The exact same thing can be said about having an HO V6. If so many people are buying 240hp Mustangs, why does GM need a 300hp V6?

My fear is that having a HO V6 in the line-up allows them to push up the prices on a V8. I'd rather be able to afford a lesser V8, than be stuck with a V6, 300hp or not.

I just sold an Audi S4 2.7L twin turbo. Sure, it was fast, but it never felt like a V8 does, and that feel and V8 sound is half the point of owning a pony car, at least for me personally.

I don't personally know this info, but I wonder how cost-effective it is to tool and wire this particular car for 4 different engines?

 

I don't think anyone on here is freaking out. We're all simply stating our thoughts and view on what could/would happen and why we think so.

I just want GM to build the car, and I want it to succeed. I grew up on V8 powered pony cars, so they are near and dear to me. I've had some of the best V6/I6/I4 cars made for performance, but none can compare to a V8 for me.

 

I wish some experts would chime in on this. Cause I don't see these prices people are throwing out as reasonable. These are the most equivalent cars I can find and Mustang is discussed in the summary. Almost all are fairly new, with fairly new powertrains and have several sister cars to eat cost as Camaro will.

((All MSRPs are rounded))

3.0L V6 221hp Fusion is 21k MSRP
3.5L V6 201hp G6 Coupe is 22k MSRP
3.5L V6 211hp Monte Carlo LS is 21k MSRP

Avg. Price = 21,300 4.0L V6 Mustang has 210hp, didn't put this list in the above because its the least modern on this list and will probably be getting replaced by the time Camaro is out. 20k MSRP


3.5L HOV6 250hp Charger is 23k MSRP
3.5L V6 298hp G35 Sedan is 31k MSRP,
3.5L V6 306hp IS 350 is 36k MSRP
3.9L V6 240hp G6 Coupe GTP is 23k MSRP

Avg. Price =28,500 More than 4.6L V8 Mustang GT which is 26k MSRP Thats as even as I could make it considering the current domestic HO V6s aren't making the power we're talking about and you pay a premium because the imports are imports.


5.3L V8 303hp Monte Carlo SS is 28k MSRP
5.7L V8 350hp Charger is 31k MSRP
Avg. Price = 29,500 Mustang will have a power upgrade right as Camaro comes out. Probably from tuning 4.6 which we know they can do so little price increase if any. So a more powerful 5.3 in Camaro will only be making 20-30 more hp. and will cost three thousand dollars more

6.0L V8 400hp GTO is 33k MSRP,
6.1L V8 425hp Charger is 38k MSRP
Avg. Price =35,500 Ten grand more than Mustang GT...

Im not going into possible SC Camaro one because Im tired, and too if it happens it will happen like the GT500 low numbers.

 

You know, the pricing of the Camaro and the pricing of the Charger (in current $$) will be pretty close in my opinion (and only opinion). Chevy is comparing the Camaro to more than the Mustang...

Charger SXT $ = Camaro RS (HO V6) $
Charger RT $$ = Camaro SS (lo po V8) $$
Charger SRT8 $$$ = Camaro Z28 (hipo V8) $$$

 

Your HO V6 options are quite skewed. 2 of the 4 you quote are Lux, or semi-Lux models and don't relate well to a Camaro or Mustang. Excusing those two models, you get a 23K average for the HO V6. A much more easy to swallow number.

Using the GTO in this comparison is a little inappropriate as well. Since we mostly know the GTO's price was well above what was originally intended.

IMHO, there really is no room for an HO V6. I'm curious as to which market segment this will appeal? The masses will opt for the base-V6 (that's what it's there for: to sell). The gearheads will go for one of the V8 options. Where does that leave the HO V6? Sure, there are some that will take it, but I would be willing to bet that number is lower than the V8 models. Especially if both a 300HP HO V6 and a 300HP V8 are offered. Who's not taking the V8?

Yes, there are insurance concerns, but <NEWS FLASH> this car is not marketing itself to those with insurance concerns. If you have insurance concerns, you get the V6, not even the HO V6. Rest assured, your insurance company will know about any such HO V6 and will most likely treat it like any other sports car. Not to mention the fact, that if you do have insurance concerns, you probably shouldn't be shopping Camaros anyway, by name alone.

 

Well I addressed that in my post, the two domestics don't make nearly the power we are talking about. So even if we assume some money will be saved because this fictional engine will not be "luxury" and lack some refinement... There is still going to be a price increase over what is currently offered because of whatever added engineering cost to get to the power we are talking about.

Perhaps If you took out the IS and then just averaged the three you would get a more palatable number.

If thats true it negates what you said anyway as this engine will have a luxury breeding so its likely to be right up there in performance and cost with those in the G35 and IS. Seeing as how I averaged those two "luxury" cars with two passenger cars, I think my number is pretty good.

Perhaps If you took out the IS and then just averaged the three you would get a more palatable number. I suppose I got someone off topic here as I was addressing people's ridicolous notion that this car is gonna have twice as much power and content as a mustang and cost half as much.

As for the GTO, I don't know a whole lot about that, but what it cost is what it cost. If its not immune to unforseen issues Camaro isn't either.

I also didn't go into the fact that if camaro were the bargain some people expect it to be it would obfuscate the purpose of Cobalt, Monte Carlo, GTO Corvette and everything else.