why should the LS3 be any more expensive than the LS1 just because it makes more horsepower.. it probably doesnt cost much more to manufacture..

an 2002 Z28's MSRP was $22,830.. that'd be about $24,370 in 2005(the latest i can go)

now.. assuming 4% a year inflation(pretty high estimate) .. and assuming the car comes out in 2008, that'd be about $27,400.. pretty close to my $28k estimate earlier

 

oh, lets not forget that this Camaro is going to be produced on a global rear wheel drive platform, shared with many other cars across the world.. GM could easily keep the price of the Camaro competative because all the other cars would be turning a large profit even if they lost a little on the camaro.. overall Zeta would be making money

 

The Challenger's got three hot selling sister cars to eat its cost... We'll see how much the MSRP is on that...

 

Think of my buddies 405hp Z06. That car was a lot more expensive than the other 350hp Vette's. Not because of the nifty badges, but because of everything that had to go along with it.

Horsepower is a game of diminishing returns. To get to that 400+hp, you change a lot more than what you see as a sum of parts. Everything needs to be better, stronger and lighter, from the pistons, to the crank, to the rods, to the valvetrain. Stronger and lighter means more expensive.

All that extra power has to go through a drivetrain that won't explode behind it. So that means more investment and development in the transmissions, the rear-end, the axles, driveshafts, etc.

Getting 400+hp out of the engine is only the half of it...building a chassis, drivetrain, brakes and suspension that can handle it and survive the warranty period is the other half of the equation.

 

Yea, but the way i view it, is the latest GTO has 400 hp in 3800 lb car for about $32k.. So, it might be a stretch, but I think its possible to have that in a Camaro for $28k.

 

Why can they not? How much more is a 6.2 going to cost than a 5.3? Would a 5.3 and a 6.2 use different trannies and differentials, or would they carry over to both cars? It all depends on GM's setup, but how do you actually know what they can and can't do? It doesn't sound absolutely out of the boundaries of possibility to me.

Is a Mustang GT even going to cost $27k by the time the new Camaro comes out?

 

The Camaros going to have a whole lineup of cars it can potentially share parts with. Far more than the Challenger will.

 

What was that much different on a z06 Vette? The t56 was an M12 unit, but the base C5's t56 would have done the job fine. Better brakes on the z06, but the c5's were adequate. How much more does an LS6 actually cost to build over an LS1? I don't know the answer, but I can't see it being that much. The motor has a better valve train, but what else about the motor makes it better than a LS1? Rear end on the z06 - same as the c5. Besides some suspension stuff, the cars were virtually identical.

GM charged more for the z06, because it was a z06. There is a set of diminishing returns for automobile performance typically, but technology keeps pushing what can be done for cheaper farther and farther. If GM wants to make a huge splash with the new Camaro, from a performance standpoint 420hp for under 30Gs is a good way to do that.

 

I like your thinking Ken, and considering:

-It'll be a NA built car without all of the extra import taxes

-Considerably more volume (2, almost 3x as many, hopefully)

-The other platform mates, as already mentioned

There'll be a premium right out of the gate, for sure, but I imagine down the road this thinking should be sound. That 32k price is probably pretty deeply discounted, though. Won't be seeing that kind of rebate on a Camaro until 2010+ probably. Weren't they damn near giving away the Goats for awhile? Too bad, too, its a pretty nice car, IMO. If I was in the market for new right now I might have bought one. Maybe that was before the LS2 came out.

 

All that extra "stuff" you keep skimming over, has to be designed, engineered and built and tested, often times repeatedly for each model.

This isn't the first time any one has ever gotten more than one vehicle out of a platform, so why do we think GM doing it is going to put the automotive world on its head?

Nissan has essentially three platforms in the whole damn company. The Tundra and QX, are one, the G35, 350Z, M45 and Q45 are another. Then the Maxima, Altima and everything else.

While they are profitable I don't see Infinit hugely undercutting Lexus on prices, and I dont see Nissan undercutting Toyota or honda by much.

The more "flexible" this platform is, the more work that has to be done on each car. Different window touch down points, wheel bases, interior dimensions and everything else mean that you are still going to have design engineering, building and testing to do for each vehicle.

Im just trying to be the voice of reason, I knew reason wasn't popular beforehand. I don't know how you can claim that GM is charging you for the fact that a Z06 is a "Z06" but think the situation would be any different for a Camaro which has generated more buzz than any Z06 ever will, especially since you think this Camaro is going to perform like the Z06 for 50k less.

 

Base V8 should be LS1 power (assuming weight is the same or less than the old camaro).
Mid V8 should be 400+ (425?)
High V8 should be ~500 (rated 475? so that it's not approaching ZO6 hp)

 

Id be shocked if you saw the 5.3 in this car. I wouldnt put money on it. Also I dont think the prices in the poll correspond to the motors. I expect the 400 hp base V8 to be a couple hundred over Mustang Base GT V8 Price.

 

The same reason that Dodge could charge more for a Hemi model Ram, as opposed to their 4.9(I think that was the displacement), higher cost OHC engine.

When did I ever say that the Camaro will perform like any z06, either c5 or c6?
I have to side with 5thgen69Camaro, I really doubt we are going to see any iteration of the 5.3 in the 5th gen at all.

 

This certainly seems to be what the "winky club" on here has been insinuating for months about the 5th gen's powertrain.

 

I honestly don't know or care about the 5.3.

I simply don't believe that you are going to get a 400hp V8 for 26k. Id bet money I don't have on it.