There has been some "ZL1" discussion on other threads. I believe the ZL1 name could be hung on an upgraded SS and used as a halo car to bring fame and sales to the Camaro line, but I would like to know what you faithful think.

Is the ZL1 a:

1. SS option package with a 427 and 22" chrome rims
2. Z28 option package with a 427 and lightweight rims
3. Paint and tape option on an SS or Z28?
4. A stripped "uber" Z28?
5. Some sort of distinct model with attributes all it's own

 

1. SS option package with a 427 and 22" chrome rims
or 5. Some sort of distinct model with attributes all it's own

 

I voted for 5, it is something that should be unique and of its own nameplate, not an add-on to the SS model.

 

i like what he said ^

 

2 questions.

1. Why 22" rims?

* Doesn't do anything for performance.

* Not good for potholes, curbs, etc...


2. Why does Camaro need a ZL1 to bring fame & sales?

* Camaro is one of the top 5 automotive known names in the US.

*The only people who know what ZL1 is are people who are already Camaro enthusiasts. People who aren't Camaro enthusiasts know what a Z28 is and that SS means a sportier or performance model Chevrolet.

* The "Higher the performance, the Higher the sales numbers" myth went out the window in 1998 when the 4th gen Camaro got the LS1 and still saw sales head into the toilet at the same time Mustangs increased.

* Camaro NEEDS to sell larger numbers of REGULAR models to see sales gains and survive. 4th gen Camaro SS sales actually increased over it's life, and there certainly was no shortage of people who knew Camaros were quick and fast.


I agree with the idea of various short run Camaros to keep intrest alive in the car, the way Ford is doing with Mustang and Chrysler is doing with their Ram trucks. But realistically, what we are talking about are cars that emphasize cosmetics over ridiculously expensive Z06 engines, with maybe a tune or a power adder that might add no more than a few thousand dollars to the price of making the car.

I don't think making an expensive, uberCamaro is the answer. I also think Ford is really streaching things when they sent their latest SVT Mustang to the $40K mark.

 

I'm not really fixated on dubba-dubba's, I'm just throwing them out there as an idea starter.

I disagree with the second paragraph quoted, and the last paragraph quoted is where I think you're making the mistake. I think Ford is going to sell a lot og GT500's, and I think they're going to generate a lot of V6 and V8 sales, plus a lot of parts and kit sales simply by having the GT500 out there.

You've probably seen several of my posts, so you're probably aware of my focus, but I'll re-iterate here for people who might not "know" me. My overriding concern is that GM leverage it's strengths and minimize it's weaknesses in order to sell a huge number of these cars. Strengths like modular platforms and powertrains. Weaknesses like bad corporate image and product dilution.

I believe (and I post based on that belief) that if GM the corporation, and not just Camaro the model, is going to survive they have to use cars like our favorite to attract AND RETAIN new buyers.

That means (in MY mind) the Camaro cannot simply recreate 1969 or 1977 or 1985 in a new wrapper. In MY mind, what it means is that GM must do new things. Eventually, they have to stop making decisions based on what fanatics like us want.

And please- make no mistake- I AM a fanatic. I have owned Camaro's in the past, I buy Chevy's exclusively and recommend to my family that they buy GM, and I have already slept on the couch enough that the argument about the 2010 Camaro is over and there will be one in the driveway.

But... I think that GM could take the ZL1 and use it to market the brand. You're right- everyone in the world knows what a Z28 or SS should be and almost no one but us knows what a ZL1 is.

To me, that means that GM could take the ZL1 name and make it a limited production... something. A car that is desireable to Hollywood. A car that Honda driving dorks desire owning. A car that runs like a 'vette, but seats 4. A car that is "unique". A car that drives people to the showroom, causes them to buy a V6 or base V8, and if those cars are good enough turns them into repeat GM buyers.

A car that defines the "essence" of Camaro, and might even set the template for "Musclecar".

The bottom line is that IN MY MIND, GM will eventually have to do something different in order to succeed, and this would be a good "something different". In my mind, success is defined as attracting and retining new buyers, and GM won't do that by catering to those of us who are already buyers.

Remember- doing the same thing every time but expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

 

I think a lot of this super-Camaro talk is because of the GT500, or past supercharged Cobra. Yes they are faster cars. But I don't see the need to compete in that range. Chevy has always had the Vette so the Camaro doesn't need to be the fastest car. I suppose you could say Ford has the GT but the price and the availability of that keeps it out of this.
I think if we get a Z28 and SS with some good V8 power and styling unique to each in a price range most of us can afford that will be enough.

Besides I have always thought that building a super vehicle of any model is something that companies do when they are in good financial status. GM is not and I think funds spent on a super Camaro should be spent elseware. If GM turns this around and makes money in a few years then hey build all the ZL1's or supercharged Z06's you want. But to me right now they need help in more profit producing areas.

 

VERY excellent points. Just strange after the arguement that Camaro needs to be diverse and have multiple models. I think Camaro absoloutely needs a Z06 equivelent. If that car is the Z28 and it should be, then I still think it would be neat to have a ZL1 572 big block. If nothing else a couple of GM cars just to show off what both the biggest big block and Camaro can do at shows at drag races across the country.

 

I still think it's possible for Corvette and Camaro to co-exist, each being equally successful in their own regards. The Camaro will never BE a Corvette, or offer quite the same "total experience" as the Corvette offers, so there should be no worry of "stepping on Corvette's toes".

That being said, I don't see anything (financially or otherwise) wrong with offering a limited production (couple? few? hundred? thousand?? ) "top-of-the-line-take-no-prisoners-beats-all-hands-down" type of Camaro . I will even "concede" to the notion that since the Corvette is the "king" of the track, then the Camaro should be "king" of the 1/4 mile. Thus, build it like a "suped up" SS ... maybe not in terms of frills or options, but give it the "grand-daddy" of powerplants ... whether that's a 427/LS7-derivative, or whatever. Given the current performance of both the Z06 and the GT500, the "ZL-1" Camaro should run much closer to the capabilities of the Z06 in the 1/4 mile ..... absolutely embarass the GT500 .

Is that really such a far-fetched, impractical, non-feasible idea?? I don't think so. Its price will be a premium, which will offset most of the extra cost of development, and it should hold the same sort of "supercar" fascination as cars like the Z06 / GT500 / Viper / etc., all do . Enthusiast cars like these inspire passion and dreams ... give the world something (a Camaro) to dream about .

 

Thank you Pete. I wish I could have phrased it that well.

So... what he said.

 

Tell us what the "SS option package" and the "Z28 option package" is so that we know where we're starting.

I'd bet we won't need a ZL1 to cover the GT500.

 

Also, the GT500 will be concluding it's production run, just as the first Camaros start going down the line.

 

I'd be happy if it had a 396 LSx, w/weight reduction patterned after the Z06, but maybe not as extreme...or adding a SuperCharger!

With the Cobra pushing 500hp(+-), and the SRT8 Challenger over 450, I'd think a special, all buisness Camaro should be considered..

 

But wouldn't you find it disturbing if "this year's top Camaro" was slower than "last year's top Mustang"?

 

that will never ever happen.. GM please dont let that happen