I was browsing around for future car models today and noticed that there are already spy photos/videos of other 2009 model cars that are in the testing
stages...

It seemed to me that this is pretty early to be testing an 09 model. How long on average does it take to test a car before its release? If some of these makers are already testing their 09 models that suggests one of three things. The Camaro is nearing the production stages or the Camaro is not going to be tested nearly as rigorously as other models or these other models are just allowing themselves plenty of time to make adjustments.... which is it?

Also, on another thread someone mentioned that the changes between MY1 and MY2 are usually to make adjustments and fix small issues. If GM gave the engineers ample time to test the car (say, if they were to begin testing the car now for an 09 release) wouldn't that eliminate a lot of these problems?

 

Since no one else has commented I though I’d jump in.

How long it takes to develop a vehicle depends on a lot of factors including whether it’s a totally new vehicle/100% redesign or whether it’s more of an evolutionary change…tooling, parts availability, supply lines, whether new manpower has to be hired or brought over from other lines and/or re-trained and all the other thousands of details all have to be worked out and all impact the development time…it’s also a matter of how important, as in, how much resources a manufacturer is willing to put toward getting the project launched…you can do a lot in a relatively little amount of time if you are willing to commit the man-hours and dollars necessary to do it.

Testing is pretty much dependent on the manufacturer and what amount of testing they are willing to live with before they pronounce a vehicle ready for the public…certainly, the new processes and components need to be tested more than already established ones. If you are producing a performance car then performance testing takes on more importance but the manufacturer also has to ask itself what it’s willing to spend money to change if performance testing reveals an issue.

Domestic manufacturers have a reputation for “fixing” in second or later model years and for letting the “public” do a lot of the testing…I don’t think it was ever quite as bad as the reputation would have indicated and I think the domestics have improved a great deal in the past couple of decades but I still think it’s a bit of a problem for them.

If I recall, the C6 has had a couple of very public and fairly significant problems since its introduction (if memory serves, there was a problem with the brakes and also with the roof panel’s metal exterior)…so I think it fair to wonder why those problems weren’t discovered and addressed before for car was released to for sale???

Also keep in mind that virtually every manufacturer will make minor model changes from year to year simple to keep the model “fresh” and to keep up with the competition between major redesigns; that does not necessarily mean they are “fixing problems”.

This is not so much a matter of testing or “domestic” vs “import” reliability but in general, I always think that it’s better to wait until the second or third year of a car’s production before buying both to give a chance for problems to surface (if there are any) and to catch the lion’s share of small improvements (which almost always happen in the second and third year of a model run).

 

Everything that Robert said.

It isn't too early to start testing 2009 models, being that we're well into the 18-24 month range, the typical number of months for starting some road tests of components. Remember, there has to be time to redesign and retest some components to be certain they'll hold up for 100K miles, and Lutz has mandated that alot of parts be tested till they break.

There's also different stages of cars, ranging from mules (cobbled together using current cars) to almost complete prototypes like the 2008 Malibu in the pics recently. Although there's some type of 5th gen Camaro likely running around right now, we're probally quite a few months away from catching any identifiable prototypes on the street.

 

I don't know about the brakes but the roof skin problems were caused by a bad batch of adhesive from the supplier (btw, Corvettes are fiberglass, not metal. )

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a lot of the development still taking place "down under"? So I wonder if some of the earliest "spy shots" won't have to come up from Aussie, and it'll be quite awhile before we see anything up here in NA?

 

By Domestic do you mean cars built in the USA, or just DCX, GM, and Ford. I highly doubt that "domestics" purposely put out flawed cars just to have the public find the problems. That leads to heavy recalls and bad press. Any new first year 100% new car will have more flaws or problems then year two, or a 50% new car.

The initial quality on a lot of "Domestics" is a lot higher than a good number of imported cars. Not all imported cars are from the same location.

 

My question is what kind of problems can we expect from the camaro?

 

Humm...I thought that the sheet that was (potentially) comming off at speed was metal but you're probably right.

 

By "domestics" yes, I was refering to the domestic nameplates and in the 60's-80's there was a lot or recalls and bad press (although if memory serves the NHTSA wasn't founded until the very early 1970's so the recalls came later).

I'm not really trying to suggest that they put out knowingly flawed cars to let the public find the problems but the level of "testing" the big three went through in the 60's-70's-80's simply wasn't near what almost every manufacturer does today. When you bought a new car from the Big 3 in those time periods you knew you were going to get to know your dealer's service manager pretty well until all the problems were fixed...you just had to assume it was going to happen...it was as much a part of life as assuming Windows95 will crash once or twice a day for no apparent reason.

Granted, a lot of the problems were more than just "design" issues that didn't get uncovered early - there were lots of issues and was probably as much a result of having no real competition from anybody doing it better and big enough to show up on the radar of the big three.

 

I've read about this problem more than once, and from different sources ... I think it's more than a "potentially" problem! And yeah, AFAIK it's either a fibreglass roof, or possibly a plastic/"composite".

 

The same level of problems that the 2005 Vette, 2005 Mustang, 2006 Charger 2006 Solstice, 2008 CTS or 2005 STS. I don't expect many problem since the Camaro isn't the first Zeta car being built. Most small bugs show up in the first 3 months. Wait 6-12 months if you are worried about 1st year problems.

 

Well, I bought a second year Cobalt, and I had multiple problems. First my engine fans did not work. I found out only when the car began to overheat. The sad thing is, this was from the factory apparently. Next, my air conditioning did not work properly, and it is still pretty weak if you ask me. Lastly, my key stoped coming out of the ignition. So, this makes me worry about buying a Camaro right away or even in the first 2 years. But, I guess I have to accept that I just got the worst Cobalt made. Lol

 

So, when will they be able to spy it out on Nurburgring?

 

yes, I would really like to know that too!

nothing like a little road trip to take a look.

 

Let's see? It's late October. Good chance you'll see something undisguised before you see camo.