TOO Z MAXX

I think what people are afraid of is the man turning off their car for non payment, no insurance, no registration, no license, late on child upport payments,back taxes, alimony and a bunch of other things. They will try, some people just dont care about freedom.

Need4Camaro

"What're tollroads?"
"What're emissions checks?"

If it weren't for the fact that Michigan was cold, and so close to Canada, you would live in a perfect Utopia wouldn't you?

guionM

Don't make car payments, your car is repossesed.

Don't have insurence, registration, or license, your car can be impounded (taken).

Late on Child Support, back taxes, or alimony, then any government agency (or citizen via running it through the court) can file a lien on your state or federal tax return, and confiscate any refunds you're due or file a wage attachment.

Again, all this hoopla over OBD3 is just flat out silly. The only thing that keeps on being brought out is either a bunch of fiction or paranoia.

The puropse of the transmittion is to help cut down the time it takes for people to bring in their car for repair. Instead of just getting a "check engine" light, you'll also get what essentially is a recall letter from the automaker letting you know there's a problem with your engine, & will ask you to bring your car in for warranty work.

That's it.

No black helicopters. no SWAT team guys knocking at your door. No FBI wiretaps.

Just a frigging recall notice from the automaker.



To recap once again:

1. No one is going to strip the emission controls off their brand new, I'm-still-making-payments, fully warrantied car or truck unless they're preping it for track only use or are complete idiots since doing so will void any powertrain warranty.

2. Emissions equptment is warrantied for 100,000 miles. To translate, OBD 3 codes transmitted (just like OBD2 and OBD1) that records, shows, or transmitts a code is covered by the factory warranty (unless you screwed up something).

3. If I can go to court and get a lien on your tax refund or attach your paycheck for nonpayment of some fine, judgement, or anything of that sort (I have personally done this before in a previous job) and get reimbursed, I seriously doubt I'm going to track you down by some transmitted emission code and come after your car till you pay me.


Geeez! Some of you guys are bordering very close to being psyhcotic conspiracy crackpots, aren't you??!

GoFast908Z

TOO Z MAXX

You sound like a conformist and a pushover. Being from California I think you would know better how the gov operates. Look what is happening with the black boxes now. If you are in a wreck the lawyers want to that info. They will also check your cell phone records to see if you are on the phone. If you dont think these tracking devices wont get used for other purposes, you my fellow Californian are totally blind. But since it must be for our own good lets not ever question what could happen and just say OK do what you want.

hyperv6

Well I work in the performance after market and I would be affected more than most here. I AM NOT WORRIED!

People will Strip emmisions off the cars before 100,000 mile as we have them today doing so with dealer fresh cars. Never underestimate what someone is willing to do. I will get calls for Camaro performance aftermarkert parts as soon as many will be placing orders for cars and any hit the lots.

But as stated it is not necessary to remove these items as many and most companies are already working to make parts that work with such systems in place.

Eveyone said Oh God! OBD is the end of performance! They then said that OBD II would never be overcome and we would never see performance mods again. Again they were wrong.

At this point companies will see what the law requirements are and work to make products compatiable with ODB III. Cars in the future will be modified and run faster than ever and everyone will forget this thread.

As for tracking they can already do this with Onstar and your cell phone if it is turned on so if your not worried now don't start.

The hardest part of all of this is learning the computer programing and reflashing the computer.

Also the computer only knows what is sent to it so the input sensores can be used to fool it. Today you can buy O2 simulators thatr give off the proper reading and fool the computer into to thinking it is running to factory spec when the engine is heavily modified. This too could be done for apll other sensores.

The only problem I see is righ at intor it will take many after market 6 month to a year to map ou the computer without GM's help. this will delay the new products to start.

At this point there is no reason to worry the sky is not falling and you will be doing much of what you have already been doing for years. The only real down side is It just may cost you more. But what doesn't anymore.

SEMA is looking out for us and they are the voice of the performance sommunity. So we are not without representation.

Trust guionM as he is the voice of reason as he is on the right track.

JCS30TH

Amen. Just a little common sense here. These people who find that your ecm transmitting signals from your car are probably the same who feel traffic cameras are ok.

"Again, all this hoopla over OBD3 is just flat out silly. The only thing that keeps on being brought out is either a bunch of fiction or paranoia.

The puropse of the transmittion is to help cut down the time it takes for people to bring in their car for repair. Instead of just getting a "check engine" light, you'll also get what essentially is a recall letter from the automaker letting you know there's a problem with your engine, & will ask you to bring your car in for warranty work.

No black helicopters. no SWAT team guys knocking at your door. No FBI wiretaps.
Just a frigging recall notice from the automaker."

BULL**** - That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Did you ever notice your vehicle has a "CHECK ENGINE LIGHT" -

The funny thing is that probably the one of the largest roadblocks is the FCC and for once I agree with the trial lawyers, day 1 this goes in effect - clear the dockets.

Need4Camaro

But in the end, none of it matters because you're going to be the first one at the Chevy Dealer to purchase an 08 / 09 Z28 regardless if it is OBDIII or not...

graham

Thank you for a good (tuesday) Monday morning chuckle.

JCS30TH

I would not purchase a vehicle with OBDIII unless there was a proven method to disable the broadast function.

Need4Camaro

If that never occurs, are you sure you're going to beable to hold out of the entire next generation of automobiles? Not just Camaro's... I mean, over time, even 2006 - 07 cars will become dated...

JCS30TH

word not worried bout dated. I'd be driving a 69 GTO now if they didn't cost more than a Z06

notgetleft

What are you talking about? No one strips emmisions equipment off of warrantied cars they don't even own yet? I could;'t even begin to count the number of H/C and other significantly modded damn near brand new cars i've seen at gatherings, cruises, etc. If EFILive V2 was out yet, i'd have H/C on my GTO right now, the heads have been sitting on my kitchen table since christmas.

Powertrain warranty, what's that? I considered that voided the first time i powershifted. I guess i'm just an idiot. Or then again, maybe i'm a single guy with a good job that can afford to have the fun i want because i can afford to replace it when i break it.

And the second part is exactly what's so scary to modders. Say you swap cams and are having trouble dialing in the tune. Now your local GM dealer and god knows who else know that you keep getting a random misfire codes while you try to work it out. No big deal right? Except what happens when the EPA decides to start sending out notices requiring extra intense inspections for all cars that report more than a certain number of SES events in a given period of time. Or worse, maybe they just fine you if you hit some level they determine is excessive. (and to really go down eth conspiracy trail...) what's to stop the government from building in code that forces the car to send a signal when it exceeds 80mph.

Basically, building in the ability for your own possessions to tattle on you is way too invasive of privacy for my blood. yes i know we already have black boxes that will tell all (to a point) after an accident, but this has positives as well as negatives (for example, if the person who hit you has a black box that says they were going 80mph and didn't touch their brakes). I'm more worried about the general police state that would be easy to set up over motor vehicles once you build in the tattle tale circuitry, and this has no positives unless you're a fan of no personal freedoms and forced compliance with all laws.

guionM

No my fellow Californian, as a former member of law enforcement, I just happen to be in a better position to give an idea of what does happen as opposed to what the more paranoid, "all-government-is-evil", "UN-is-part-of-a-New-World-Order", "I-have-the-government-tracking-me-through-brain-implants", conspiracy people want to imagine.... some people just need a boogeyman to have meaning in life.

As you have read in my posts on this thread, I HAVE identified black boxes as the bad guy here. Yet, again, we have the paranoia crowd here ranting about emissions computers. That's like pumping billions of dollars towards a potential 2.0 earthquake in California, while ignoring a massive Catagory 5 hurricane bearing down on Florida.

If you are doing something illegal that involves an automobile (non-payment, no insurenece, excessive tickets, criminal activity involving an automobile) you're gonna loose your car regardless.

As for tracking your movements, ask what reasons would I track your movements. Just for s*its and giggles? I'm bored at work, so I'm going to go to a judge tell him it's a slow day at the office, so can I please have permission to track 250,000,000 people by making all the major automakers forward emission code information to me so I can know what each and everyone is doing?

Uh... no.


Again, the factor is criminal or blantantly suspicious activity. Of course, if you are one of those paranoid survivalists who end up buying every gun and rocket launcher you can, of course you'll be of intrest. In that situation, a person creates his own reality by doing things that will directly create the situation he claims is real anyway. Just like the guy who thinks people are talking about him. He starts asking everyone and acting paranoid, what happens?? People start talking about him!

If I wanted to find you, and you were evading police, I could probally find you doing nothing more than tracking your ATM & credit card use, & with the frequency of your cell phone, triangulate your location (your cell phone can be tracked without you using it, as long as it's on). That plus a few other things & you're found.

Put that into perspective with a 2009 Camaro's emission computer that's programmed to send out an emissions code to GM when an error occurs, which then sends you a letter in the mail asking you to bring in your car so they can fix it... for free.

What really shines on the silliness of this whole OBD 3 paranoia issue is that after 100,000 miles, and the manufacturer's liability is over, just like you can do with the "check engine" light of OBD 2, you can bypass the notification (light or signal transmission) or even redo the computer as long as the engine is still emissions compliant.


What REALLY kills me about all of this is that a couple of you whining the most either have or favor On Star, which is also used to locate stolen vehicles!

Nonetheless, OnStar ladened Escalades are the most commonly stolen truck, so it begs to question how effective satillite tracking is if it's cheapened enough to install on a affordable vehicle.

guionM

Again, OBD3 is nothing. It's the black boxes you need to worry about.

I fully expect the yackers to continue yacking about how OBD3 invades privacy, how the NHTSA terrorizes people, how everything is a "government" conspiracy, how everyone's going to be tracked by emission codes, and how in the every child born in a public hospital has secret transmitters inplanted so that government can keep track of them.

Whatever.