King Moose SS

They should stop the Volt, and make it the cadillac Converge, Nobody is gonna buy a chevy for $40k, but a Cadillac for $40k is more like it.

97z28/m6

i remember many talks on here about lesser V8's.

CLEAN

I'd like to say something about these 2 quotes. I don't know that you can fairly compare a 2LT w/ an L76 w/ a no option 1SS. The difference in equipment is pretty great. As GM has forced us to go all or nothing w/ things like leather, ambient lighting, console gauges, ipod/bluetooth compatibility, ect, I think it's only fair to compare what we're talking about w/ a 2SS, which adds up to a significantly higher cost for the consumer. To address your question, a 2LT w/ an L76 would be a higher profit car in our case because we (wifey anyway) will not be considering a SS, so GM won't be making that money. And on the truly alarming side, she's not happy w/ the lack of real interior colors (carpets, headliners, ect) as black interiors in Texas aren't a good mix. Couple that w/ the fact that she's not thrilled about being stuck w/ a V6, no matter how good it is, and for the first time yesterday, mentioned not getting one because of the compromises she would have to make and it not being worth the premium price (to her) to get a V8 w/ the options she wants and an interior color that she not just doesn't care for, but truely dislikes.

As to the second statement, I don't know what to say. There were A LOT of 305 TBI cars sold in the 80's and early 90's, in fact, I think it was the most popular engine choice during those times. It was only when GM decided to go all or nothing w/ the 4th gens that you saw this move of everyone to the high end car, which I'm sure was GM's intent. However, since GM hasn't offered a mid-V8 in almost 20 years, I'm not suprised that todays auto show enthusiasts (and I agree that a disproportionate number of them are probably performance enthusiasts, which is not a bad thing, I'm one!) would want the biggest most powerful engines. But that doesn't mean that theres not a segment that would go for a 350ish hp V8 JUST to get that SOUND, and a bit more torque than the V6 can provide. Especially if they could do it for the same price as they can w/ a G8, where you can go from a 3.6 A5 to a 6.0 A6 for $3500. That same move in a Camaro is $6500. Too much IMO if you're just looking for a torquey, good sounding engine at a competitive price (i.e. $2x,xxx) to the Mustang and you don't need/want 400+ hp and Brembo brakes.

King Moose SS

I like GM's all or nothing features. Cause if you go to like other car companies there base MSRP is super low. But you have absolutly nothing in the car. The other companies say there cars are really cheaper, but when you add the features GM has standard, there either the same price or higher priced.

Big Als Z

Agreed, the base V8 would be a better sell the powers to be now then ever before. You can appeal to the V8 people while not have them price themselves out of the price range.
Is the V6 great? It sure is! I love it in the CTS. Its very smooth, it pulls that 4k+ sedan around with plenty of power. Hell, on a recent Acadia rental, my brother and mom were impressed of its power. My brother thought it was a V8 because it seemed to haul all thier snowboarding stuff very well and it pulled him back into the seat.
But the problem is image, and image is something that GM never can understand. Its along the same line of no navigation in anything but a Caddy. Its the same as the lack of a OHC V6 for decades. Its along the same line as GM's loss of interest in compact and midsized cars all together.
GM doesnt understand till its too late sometimes. I should actually say its GM-North America. Europe seems to get it. The Aussies seem to get it. But here in America, we some how we cannot understand our own people. GM NA used too, but for the last 30 years its been a guessing game.

IZ28

We had many discussions about a mid-level V8 and how it would benefit the Camaro.....higher ups simply did not want to hear it. GM has incredible wisedom supposedly. I honestly think that F*rd would be smart to keep the 4.6 available as an option for those that want a V8 but don't need 400HP. A similar option for the SS would have been smart for the Camaro.

CLEAN

It's not as much about the price as it is about the ability, or lack thereof, to option the car the way I want it. Why is it impossible to have a V8 Camaro w/ cloth seats that plays mp3's? On the 1LT, you can get the "connectivity package" or whatever they call it and get the jack in the console, but it's unavailable on the 1SS. So they're making me pay $6300 for an engine and transmission upgrade that costs $3500 in a G8 (granted Im getting the brakes, but dont really want or need them), and then on top of that, I have to pay another $3xxx to get a 2SS so I can play my ipod, but then get stuck w/ leather seats that I don't want along w/ a host of other things. So I'm paying $10,000 for a V8 and mp3 capability, the rest of the stuff I don't want. It just bugs me, if thats the way they feel they have to do it, fine, but it just bothers me that as the generations of Camaros have gone along, we're getting less and less flexibility w/ the orderering, to the point now that it's impossible to even get the car we want, and I don't like making TOO many compromises in a car that now costs upwards of 40 grand.

1fastdog

I don't know that your assessment that car show buyers are mostly enthusiasts is valid. There certainly are enthusiasts at car shows.

There are folks just out for an inexpensive day out and a large part of that group are retirees that go to the shows on weekdays on special admission perks.

A percentage of attendees are specifically looking at a new vehicle purchase, some toting some form of consumer buying guide and a pad for taking copius notes.

There are folks who didn't think they wanted a new car when they came and leave having to have a particular car now!

I have had folks ask, while looking at the Camaro, what kind of car is this? These folks might well be enthusiasts, but from another country or planet if that's the case.

I'm more inclined to think there is a wider range of mindset at shows than you suspect. The gamut runs from hardcore enthusiast that drove several hours to see one particular car to folks just wanting to get out of the house.

Z284ever

Yesterday was the first time I had a chance to see how the 'general autoshow populace' reacted to the production Camaro. I'd say the crowd was thicker around the Camaros, that any other GM product on the floor.

1fastdog

I wouldn't doubt that the Camaro had more around it than ANY product on the show floor, regardless of manufacturer. That has been my experience this season.

Regarding engine choices, I will qualify that my opinion is just that, my opinion. Based on my gut feeling, I don't think a midlle V-8 option for Camaro would garner sufficient penetration to justify the validation and calibration costs.

Anecdotally, my impression from folks I have spent time talking with seems to reveal that 304 HP is creating raised eyebrows and pleased reactions. The L99 and LS3 numbers seem to be just as appealing. The performance fanatics want an LS9, LS7, or LSA.

If there is truly a market for a V-8 for the sake of it' merely being a V-8 rather than an actual issue ofpower level... it hasn't revealed as true a ground swell issue. I'm sure that if it becomes apparent to be so, it will be addressed, but strictly on it's merits as a business case.

I'm a lover of vehicles which are manual trans equipped. I had an '03 Silverado which was among the last to be offered that way. When the manual tranny was dropped as an option I researched the reasons. The last year it was offered less than 200 were purchased. Was there a market for the manual? Sure. 200 buyers. There's no business there. Cost to offer the option dwarfed the viability.

King Moose SS

Your making it too hard on yourself.

Don't forget back in the day we used to the base model, and add all the customizations are self. Now days the cars are 100x more complicated, so I see your point. But..... I do like the all or nothing packages, sometimes though if you have a good dealer. They can hook you up.

For example this Art Moran Chevy dealership, the one I always go to. He is open to anything. I wanted a base Chevy Trailblazer, and he was able to get me the sun and sound package, safety package, and towing package all for free.

2010_5thgen

you know they make these things for ipods that you can plug into ANY car and it will play through the sterio? if thats what you want just order the car how you want it minus the ss2 package and buy this 50 dollar part and plug it in to the camaro. that would save you alot of head ache and probably a heart attack.

95firehawk

What I've quoted in bold just doesn't quite seem like a valid argument to me. How is 365 hp going to differ from 425 hp if you have traction control and some form of common sense when it comes to driving? Safe bet would be that if you couldn't handle a car with traction control and 425 hp then you aren't going to be able to handle any V8 or a 300 hp V6 for that matter.

Now the rest I can understand to a point, but I still don't quite see the necessity for the L76. Why would you want a car that would barely be faster than the V6 yet get the gas mileage of the V8?

toegead93

Agreed, I think only an un-informed consumer would see the L76 as a legitimate option. If the base V6 was equal to what Dodge and Ford offers then yes the L76 begins to make sense. But we don't have that problem, GM gave the Camaro a sophisticated stud V6. Compare the engine lineups to the Challenger and Mustang. The Camaro offers better performance and gas milage at equal or lower pricing. One main reason Dodge has the mid V8 R/T is because the gas mialge on the SRT8 sucks worse than my old 1987 L98 IROC.

I like the idea of having more flexibility in the options, but none of the competitors can offer the same as the Camaro for the price, even after all the goodies are added in.

Ray86IROC

I'm not sure you're looking at the connectivity options correctly (that or I'm not). The 1SS has MP3 capability and an auxilary input jack in the center console as standard if I understand it correctly (all models do). The USB port connectivity package (I take it that the radio controls can actually control the iPod w/ that USB port and I presume charge the thing too) is what isn't available on the 1SS. So the 1SS can play MP3s via the aux input jack and just missed out on the more advanced input option...

These two lines are standard per the spec sheet http://www.chevrolet.com/camaro/pdf/...aro+Order.pdf:
- "Audio system: AM/FM stereo with CD-ROM, MP3 playback, music navigator and Graphic Information Display, includes outside temperature display"
- "Center console: floor with armrest and auxiliary input jack"