NEWS: REPORT: Chevrolet's Camaro convertible delayed, Z28 facing cancellation
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,132
From: Santa Clara, CA
But even a hotrodded LS3 that got another 15hp and dropped 50 pounds and added a few chassis upgrades would probably be enough, and that would not be as costly.
I'm reminded that the biggest engine on the regular options list in the gen2 Camaro was the 402. The 454 never made it. And the 402 (396 by name) was a nose-heavy car that really had no advantage over the LT1 350.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
The articles out yesterday are all positive. They all mention the weight, but it doesn't seem to be the killer you thought it would be. 13 flat 1/4s at 111mph, while getting 16/24 EPA. Sure, it could be a hundred or two pounds lighter, but that seems like whining about paying taxes on the million dollar lottery you just won.
I was really happy to see that the tested cars all came in under 3900 pounds -- even the automatics. So many times a car that is listed at 3850 on the spec sheet ends up over 4000 when a test car is put on the scales. I hope that the production models are just as light as these pre-production examples. In this case, the autos actually came in under the 3900+ on the spec sheet (don't know how that happened -- maybe not a full tank of gas, last minute spec change?).
The 2010 auto tested by MT came in at 3846 pounds. My 2002 w/o T-tops is about 3510. Since the Camaro skipped a generation, the net gain is about 10% in two generations, which is pretty much what happened to most of the rest of the market (with a couple of notable exceptions).
I was really happy to see that the tested cars all came in under 3900 pounds -- even the automatics. So many times a car that is listed at 3850 on the spec sheet ends up over 4000 when a test car is put on the scales. I hope that the production models are just as light as these pre-production examples. In this case, the autos actually came in under the 3900+ on the spec sheet (don't know how that happened -- maybe not a full tank of gas, last minute spec change?).
The 2010 auto tested by MT came in at 3846 pounds. My 2002 w/o T-tops is about 3510. Since the Camaro skipped a generation, the net gain is about 10% in two generations, which is pretty much what happened to most of the rest of the market (with a couple of notable exceptions).
BTW, I'm pretty sure that MT flip-flopped the A6 and M6 weights, I noticed that too.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 181
From: Farmington Hills,Mi
Along with Dry-sump oiling system, carbon fiber pieces, longtube, and new exhaust system.
Last edited by downwithmustang; Mar 21, 2009 at 04:15 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,069
From: Detroit, MI
This whole discussion on the Z/28 depends on one thing. Regular camaro sales, as of right now GM is in a lock because of the huge loan it took from the government.
If the sales of Camaro are hot, GM WILL BRING THE Z/28, and the concept model they had of it. Since there High Performance Division is disbanded as of right now, thats the only z/28 they can release, because thats the only one they designed.
The reason why the z/28 will come back if the camaro is hot, is because GM has a loan to pay off, and the government wants the money back ASAP. If GM can claim this car makes money, the government won't care what they sell.
If the sales of Camaro are hot, GM WILL BRING THE Z/28, and the concept model they had of it. Since there High Performance Division is disbanded as of right now, thats the only z/28 they can release, because thats the only one they designed.
The reason why the z/28 will come back if the camaro is hot, is because GM has a loan to pay off, and the government wants the money back ASAP. If GM can claim this car makes money, the government won't care what they sell.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,132
From: Santa Clara, CA
Maybe they were smoking the peyote. Maybe that was in the context of a V6. Maybe they were not considering the IRS. Maybe they weren't taking into account 2010 safety standards. I don't know -- I wasn't there. Who on the Camaro team, anyway? Engineering? Marketing? Accounting? Whoever it was, I'd say that evidence suggests that that number was quite optimistic, if not wildly so. So as I said, "by now you know that was wishful thinking" or at least I thought so.
Last edited by teal98; Mar 22, 2009 at 06:37 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 881
From: Jacksonville Florida
Well with the new Tax Happy administration, perhaps there could be some serious tax breaks for buying domestic and even a higher tax on buying an import? That could turn things around for the big 3. IF that doesn't work, may I suggest that we each beotch slap everyone we know that drives an import.
Kidding of course.................or am I?
Kidding of course.................or am I?
Registered User
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,018
For one, I can't understand how it costs $50M to put together another model of Camaro. Maybe I'm just out of touch, but then again maybe that's why GM is having so many issues with money. And Ford doesn't seem to have a problem with Convertible tops...
I think Katy Perry might have just made GM's new theme song regarding Camaro models:
You change your mind
Like a girl changes clothes
Yeah, you PMS like a bitch
I would know
And you always think
Always speak cryptically
I should know
That you're no good for me
'Cause you're hot then you're cold
You're yes then you're no
You're in and you're out
You're up and you're down
You're wrong when it's right
It's black and it's white
We fight, we break up
We kiss, we make up
You, you don't really wanna stay, no
You, but you don't really wanna go, oh
......
I think Katy Perry might have just made GM's new theme song regarding Camaro models:
You change your mind
Like a girl changes clothes
Yeah, you PMS like a bitch
I would know
And you always think
Always speak cryptically
I should know
That you're no good for me
'Cause you're hot then you're cold
You're yes then you're no
You're in and you're out
You're up and you're down
You're wrong when it's right
It's black and it's white
We fight, we break up
We kiss, we make up
You, you don't really wanna stay, no
You, but you don't really wanna go, oh
......
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Maybe they were smoking the peyote. Maybe that was in the context of a V6. Maybe they were not considering the IRS. Maybe they weren't taking into account 2010 safety standards. I don't know -- I wasn't there. Who on the Camaro team, anyway? Engineering? Marketing? Accounting? Whoever it was, I'd say that evidence suggests that that number was quite optimistic, if not wildly so. So as I said, "by now you know that was wishful thinking" or at least I thought so.
Maybe they were?
(just kidding). Actually it was for the V8/IRS package we have now. I had some 'deepthroat' sources in the bowels of General Motors who were familiar with Zeta back then. They warned me extremely early on, that Zeta was not capable of hitting those numbers. But hope springs eternal.Maybe next time.....
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
But it needs to have a certain level of focus to it. I know what I would do, but at this point, that's neither here nor there.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,482
From: ohio
Registered User
Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 214
From: Dallas, TX
I wouldn't get too worked up about this. "cancelled" and "on hold" aren't permanent situations - plenty of cars and options have been cancelled and put on hold and had funding removed, but still ended up getting produced. I'm confident that the Convertible will come about (supplier issues get worked out all the time), and that we'll see a Z28 with an LS9 about a year after that, regardless of any cancellations or delays.
Admin Emeritus
Joined: Dec 1997
Posts: 11,157
From: Nashville, TN area
That's right. I know of one in particular...just can't think of the name of it at the moment...
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,069
From: Detroit, MI
What could possibly happen is a name change. Remeber the concept Corvette SS/ Z07/ Blue Devil.... that later became the ZR-1.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 259
From: Macomb, MI
How about crash testing costs alone for a Camaro without the strength of a roof? And of course the engineering that goes along with it before the tests, during the tests, and after the tests. Big $$$$
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,132
From: Santa Clara, CA
Maybe they were? (just kidding). Actually it was for the V8/IRS package we have now. I had some 'deepthroat' sources in the bowels of General Motors who were familiar with Zeta back then. They warned me extremely early on, that Zeta was not capable of hitting those numbers. But hope springs eternal.
Maybe next time.....
(just kidding). Actually it was for the V8/IRS package we have now. I had some 'deepthroat' sources in the bowels of General Motors who were familiar with Zeta back then. They warned me extremely early on, that Zeta was not capable of hitting those numbers. But hope springs eternal.Maybe next time.....
Part of the difference could be curb versus shipping weight.
I think of the F4 as a 3500 pounds car, because that's what mine weighs (premium package + auto, no T-tops, no RS). I can't see adding wheel base, adding rigidity, adding power, adding airbags and other safety equipment, adding IRS without adding weight. And it's pretty expensive to take that back off via aluminum, carbon fiber, etc. But maybe if you consider the F4 as a 3350 pound car, 3500 is at least ballpark, though still an aggressive target.
Or maybe you considered F4 to be overweight? (I didn't)
I'm not intending to be difficult. 3500 just seems so impossible to me w/o major $$ in lightweight materials, given the above, so I'm very curious how one would come up with that. Give back the above, (return to 101" wheelbase, etc.), that's different.
Anyway, I realize that this may be a mystery whose answer is never revealed to me.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
NewsBot
2010 - 2015 Camaro News, Sightings, Pictures, and Multimedia
0
Dec 28, 2014 06:20 PM
ChrisFrez
CamaroZ28.Com Podcast
1
Dec 21, 2014 09:47 PM
ChrisFrez
CamaroZ28.Com Podcast
1
Dec 15, 2014 03:09 PM
squarehead
General 1967-2002 F-Body Tech
0
Nov 21, 2014 08:02 PM