NEWS: NurburBring It On: 2010 Camaro Cuts a Hot Lap
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,801
From: South Bend , IN
Ouch and yikes.
Camaro versus Cobalt has essentially become a driver's battle on a road course. A storied V8 nameplate with a history rooted in decades of race history has become a driver's battle with a four cylinder, front wheel drive economy car.
[Allen Iverson]Cobalt? We're talking about a Cobalt here? We're not talking about Mustang or Corvette, we're talking about Cobalt?[/Allen Iverson]
I wonder how the track guys will feel when they have to give a point by to the kid in the Cobalt while driving their 420+ hp performance car. Yikes. Not good.
This also means that the Cobalts will likely slaughter Camaros at the SCCA / NASA autocrosses.
This would be a departure from present. 3rd and 4th gens are handling the Cobalts quite nicely right now (as are the '05+ Mustangs). I'll let you guys do the rest of the math. Ouch. Not good at all.
I expected this but it's extremely sobering to see in print....
Camaro versus Cobalt has essentially become a driver's battle on a road course. A storied V8 nameplate with a history rooted in decades of race history has become a driver's battle with a four cylinder, front wheel drive economy car.
[Allen Iverson]Cobalt? We're talking about a Cobalt here? We're not talking about Mustang or Corvette, we're talking about Cobalt?[/Allen Iverson]
I wonder how the track guys will feel when they have to give a point by to the kid in the Cobalt while driving their 420+ hp performance car. Yikes. Not good.
This also means that the Cobalts will likely slaughter Camaros at the SCCA / NASA autocrosses.
This would be a departure from present. 3rd and 4th gens are handling the Cobalts quite nicely right now (as are the '05+ Mustangs). I'll let you guys do the rest of the math. Ouch. Not good at all.
I expected this but it's extremely sobering to see in print....
Nice time on the Maro , mine will see only street and straightline stuff though , my Cobalt does the twistie stuff
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 859
From: AR (PA born and fled)
I mean that's great for the Cobalt guys... not so good for the Camaro guys.
Kind of makes me wonder what a Solstice GXP would do with the same engine, bigger tires, better chassis and "right" wheel drive. Is it possible that a Solstice GXP will actually show it's tailights to a Camaro on a road course?
Given the Cobalt's time, I think it's very possible. Once again, good for the Solstice guys, not so good for us.
Honestly... forget disappointed.... what Camaro has become makes me a little angry.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,870
Yep they're fast cars but......... do you really think it is okay that they are only less than 0.5% slower than a brand new 420+ hp Camaro around such a big course like Nurburgring?
I mean that's great for the Cobalt guys... not so good for the Camaro guys.
Kind of makes me wonder what a Solstice GXP would do with the same engine, bigger tires, better chassis and "right" wheel drive. Is it possible that a Solstice GXP will actually show it's tailights to a Camaro on a road course?
Given the Cobalt's time, I think it's very possible. Once again, good for the Solstice guys, not so good for us.
Honestly... forget disappointed.... what Camaro has become makes me a little angry.
I mean that's great for the Cobalt guys... not so good for the Camaro guys.
Kind of makes me wonder what a Solstice GXP would do with the same engine, bigger tires, better chassis and "right" wheel drive. Is it possible that a Solstice GXP will actually show it's tailights to a Camaro on a road course?
Given the Cobalt's time, I think it's very possible. Once again, good for the Solstice guys, not so good for us.
Honestly... forget disappointed.... what Camaro has become makes me a little angry.
8:20 is still a very good and respectable time for what i'm guessing will be a sub-$30k car. I wouldn't exactly label it a "disappointment" and think it's far from that. I think the Cobalt SS is more of an overachiever. It's a very impressive little car that can more than play with the bigger boys. I expect the Solstice gxp to be even quicker.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
I'm willing to guess that the Camaro SS tested at Nurburgring wasn't using the final production tune. With almost 7 months before production begins, anyone who doesn't think GM will be tweaking the performance over the next few months is kidding themselves.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,801
From: South Bend , IN
. The same Camaro SS will absolutely murder the same 08 Cobalt SS in a straight line race . Ditch the gotta be heavy as hell 20" rims on the Camaro for some ...say , lightweight 18" enkei RPF1's( or some RE30's ...does volk do 5x120?) with a PS2 tire and I think the 0.5% margin would grow nicely without touching a thing on the suspension . Light wheels smaller than Dubs are the 1st thing Im doing to mine . Now , when the Z28 comes out , lets see what the real handling car will do .
Registered User
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 61
From: Los Angeles
Neither does anyone else that drives a Mustang...or a Camaro for that matter.
I think you people need to stop playing Gran Turismo, it's giving you an irrational hard-on about a racetrack. It's not like we don't have any turns or elevation changes here in the states. Oh wait...
I think you people need to stop playing Gran Turismo, it's giving you an irrational hard-on about a racetrack. It's not like we don't have any turns or elevation changes here in the states. Oh wait...
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 859
From: AR (PA born and fled)
If the supercharged rumors are true, that car will be even heavier than the SS.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 99
well the ZR1 is only ~200 pounds heaver then the z06, whos to say we can't do that we the camaro?
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,165
From: Sterling Heights, MI
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
)
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,308
From: Oshawa - Home of the 5th-gen
8:20? 
Cobalt SS - 8:22 - 260 HP / 2975 lbs - .087 HP/lb or 11.4 lbs/HP
Camaro SS - 8:20 - 422 HP / 3860 lbs - .109 HP/lb or 9.15 lbs/HP
CTS-V - 7:59 - 550 HP / ~4100 lbs - .134 HP/lb or 7.45 lbs/HP
C5 Z06 - 7:56 - 405 HP / ~3130 lbs - .129 HP/lb or 7.73 lbs/HP
C6 Z06 - 7:42 - 505 HP / 3130 lbs - .161 HP/lb or 6.20 lbs/HP
C6 ZR1 - 7:26 - 638 HP / ~3350 lbs - .190 HP/lb or 5.25 lbs/HP
Clearly, we see that Power:Weight ratio is important. So theoretically, pour on the power, and it'll make up for the weight (except in the case of the C5 Z06, which beat the CTS-V). But looking at the spread between times, and HP:weight, it looks like the Camaro should have come in closer to the ~8:00 mark than ~8:20 (maybe ~8:05?? ). It's not far enough ahead of the Cobalt, given its huge power advantage (IMO).
Maybe they went back to the "old way" of a standing start?!
Cobalt SS - 8:22 - 260 HP / 2975 lbs - .087 HP/lb or 11.4 lbs/HP
Camaro SS - 8:20 - 422 HP / 3860 lbs - .109 HP/lb or 9.15 lbs/HP
CTS-V - 7:59 - 550 HP / ~4100 lbs - .134 HP/lb or 7.45 lbs/HP
C5 Z06 - 7:56 - 405 HP / ~3130 lbs - .129 HP/lb or 7.73 lbs/HP
C6 Z06 - 7:42 - 505 HP / 3130 lbs - .161 HP/lb or 6.20 lbs/HP
C6 ZR1 - 7:26 - 638 HP / ~3350 lbs - .190 HP/lb or 5.25 lbs/HP
Clearly, we see that Power:Weight ratio is important. So theoretically, pour on the power, and it'll make up for the weight (except in the case of the C5 Z06, which beat the CTS-V
). But looking at the spread between times, and HP:weight, it looks like the Camaro should have come in closer to the ~8:00 mark than ~8:20 (maybe ~8:05?? ). It's not far enough ahead of the Cobalt, given its huge power advantage (IMO).Maybe they went back to the "old way" of a standing start?!
Last edited by Capn Pete; Jul 23, 2008 at 04:51 PM.
