NEWS: Muscle Car Wars: Camaro vs. Challenger vs. Mustang [Jalopnik Reviews]
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Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 3,252
From: Knoxville, TN
Just went thru this article again (and have the same opinion....it is very good reading).
Quick question: Does the statement "its sheer size is astounding" mean the same thing as the word "huge"?
Quick question: Does the statement "its sheer size is astounding" mean the same thing as the word "huge"?
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,165
From: Sterling Heights, MI
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,217
From: Greenville, SC
All that being said, IF, and that's a pretty big IF, the weight stays down, ~365hp could make fo a fun car. I think it will do very well.
I have to be honest, so far the 2010 Mustang GT catches my attention as much or more than the new Camaro does. I CAN'T believe I'm saying that, but it's true. It's hard to explain, but the Mustang looks "sharper" and somehow "classier" driving down the road. I don't know why that is, but that's how I feel so far. The rearend looks much better in person than pics. Craziness!
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 214
From: Toronto,Canada
sorry cant agree...I am biased. I own #6046 .... as some of you others do also...go drive a new SS and tell me it's "boring" and handles"poorly"....
this car is so damn sexy and has torque, mileage,build quality, lots a toys and man it flies around corners....I drive on the street not at Laguna Seca....the suspension and chassis engineering is second to none.
The inferno orange interior is so unique and hot....I have said it many times...GM/Oshawa/Holden/Chevrolet nailed it outta the park with the new Camaro.
and it's so damned sexy....everywhere I go people are NOT saying...hey did ya consider a MUSTANG ? NOT.
this car is so damn sexy and has torque, mileage,build quality, lots a toys and man it flies around corners....I drive on the street not at Laguna Seca....the suspension and chassis engineering is second to none.
The inferno orange interior is so unique and hot....I have said it many times...GM/Oshawa/Holden/Chevrolet nailed it outta the park with the new Camaro.
and it's so damned sexy....everywhere I go people are NOT saying...hey did ya consider a MUSTANG ? NOT.
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 859
From: AR (PA born and fled)
Because he read all the way to the bottom. 
Overall
Third: Dodge Challenger R/T
Average score: 2.5
Equipped with all the characteristics of a classic muscle car — big engine, not much else — the Challenger R/T just doesn't stack up in the modern world. Krewson and I spent and entire weekend fighting about who's turn it was to drive it. Not because we wanted to, but because we were so embarrassed by the bright orange paint, Hot Wheels stripes and the huge size that we really didn't.
Second: Ford Mustang GT
Average score: 3.6
The lightest, least powerful and most involving to drive car here, it's nevertheless 111 HP down on the Camaro SS. If muscle cars are about muscle, that matters. Even though it's the cheapest base model, you have to spec it up to the base Camaro SS price if you want equivalent spec. Had we had the optional track pack, with its GT500-derived suspension, we suspect this result could have been even pricier, but the outcome may have been very different.
First: Chevy Camaro SS
Average score: 3.7
The Camaro has a great engine, looks really cool and does pretty well everywhere else. Since none of these cars are out-and-out handlers, that puts it over the top. Grow a mullet, switch to cheap domestic beer and embrace your inner hoon.
Overall
Third: Dodge Challenger R/T
Average score: 2.5
Equipped with all the characteristics of a classic muscle car — big engine, not much else — the Challenger R/T just doesn't stack up in the modern world. Krewson and I spent and entire weekend fighting about who's turn it was to drive it. Not because we wanted to, but because we were so embarrassed by the bright orange paint, Hot Wheels stripes and the huge size that we really didn't.
Second: Ford Mustang GT
Average score: 3.6
The lightest, least powerful and most involving to drive car here, it's nevertheless 111 HP down on the Camaro SS. If muscle cars are about muscle, that matters. Even though it's the cheapest base model, you have to spec it up to the base Camaro SS price if you want equivalent spec. Had we had the optional track pack, with its GT500-derived suspension, we suspect this result could have been even pricier, but the outcome may have been very different.
First: Chevy Camaro SS
Average score: 3.7
The Camaro has a great engine, looks really cool and does pretty well everywhere else. Since none of these cars are out-and-out handlers, that puts it over the top. Grow a mullet, switch to cheap domestic beer and embrace your inner hoon.
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,178
From: Payson, AZ USA
For a person who prizes handling over straightline speed, the Mustang is a compelling package.
If I was in the market for a Pony/Musclecar at this time, I would test all three. However, based on everything I have read, the Mustang would fill my needs best.
That said, since my next Ponycar will probably be a vert (yes I realize I will sacrifice some torsional rigidity............ but who cares), there really is no choice at all. However, GM does have at least another year or so, to get their Vert out, so I can compare the two.
I do find it cool that many diehard Camaro fans are giving the Mustang some respect. I don't think anyone expected the Mustang to hang with the new Camaro as well as it does.............. including many Mustang people.
If I was in the market for a Pony/Musclecar at this time, I would test all three. However, based on everything I have read, the Mustang would fill my needs best.
That said, since my next Ponycar will probably be a vert (yes I realize I will sacrifice some torsional rigidity............ but who cares), there really is no choice at all. However, GM does have at least another year or so, to get their Vert out, so I can compare the two.
I do find it cool that many diehard Camaro fans are giving the Mustang some respect. I don't think anyone expected the Mustang to hang with the new Camaro as well as it does.............. including many Mustang people.
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From: SeVa
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From: Chicagoland IL
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Joined: Jun 2004
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From: SeVa
365hp will do pretty good but a bit short against the F5 in a full on 1/4 mile race. IIRC the GT would need right around 390 to keep pace at 3500-3600 lbs.
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,870
It's going to be interesting to see how those grumblings turn out because I have been calling that for a long time now. Especially when the new Jag DI 5.0 came out at 385hp. All the blind Ford people (NOT all Ford people) screamed "different architecture" but I do not believe it will matter.
Any logical reason why you think it wouldn't be able produce north of 385 horses? My thinking is: why would Ford mess around with a 365hp v8 when the Ecoboost 6 is easily capable of that and more while returning much better fuel economy??? If the new 5.0L isn't going to produce 385+ horses, they shouldn't even bother building it imo. Instead, gimme a Ecoboost 6 in my GT and the instant/flat tq and 27+mpg will make me forget it isn't a v8.
I think it's getting to a point where v8's will be limited to 400+ hp applications now that 6's are easily making 3XXhp in N/A and boosted applications.
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,178
From: Payson, AZ USA
Just to clarify for some folks.
There WILL be a SE Mustang, with the 3.5L Ecoboost engine, making north of 400hp. Word on test mules, is crazy performance.
Without the limitations of AWD, and a FWD based transmission, the power than this engine makes is just a matter of how much boost they want to throw in it, from the factory.
The 3.7L, base V6 engine, will also be getting improvements, from the current version. Think intake and exhaust type of things. Unlike the versions in luxury cars, there is no worry about induction noise here.
There WILL be a SE Mustang, with the 3.5L Ecoboost engine, making north of 400hp. Word on test mules, is crazy performance.
Without the limitations of AWD, and a FWD based transmission, the power than this engine makes is just a matter of how much boost they want to throw in it, from the factory.
The 3.7L, base V6 engine, will also be getting improvements, from the current version. Think intake and exhaust type of things. Unlike the versions in luxury cars, there is no worry about induction noise here.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,647
From: At car shows and cruise nights!
Absolutely not! When the 5.0's were easily beating 305s, Chevy took the L98 out of the Corvette instead of just accepting it. Granted we didn't have the 5-Speed and the L98/G92 vs. a 5.0/M5 was often a drivers race, they still did whatever they could to match or exceed the competitor. When the early Z28s outhandled the M*stang easily, they still widened the gap even further with the IROC-Z, like putting an exclamation point on it all. I'd hope to expect the same thing with yearly power upgrades and some better handling soon too, or at least a "track pack" option. The technology and potential is there to own both of it's competitors in everything for years to come.
Last edited by IZ28; Jun 26, 2009 at 07:45 PM.
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Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 3,252
From: Knoxville, TN
The powertrain technology is certainly there - nothing better than the LS3 (either now or in the foreseeable future, IMHO). However, handling may continue to be an issue, simply because of that word that some of us now get in trouble for saying.
Ford engineers are not dumb - and they are working significantly fewer lbs, giving them an advantage from the start. *IF* Mustang stays ~300 lbs lighter than Camaro, and *if* it gets a 380-ish+ HP 5.0, things will get interesting in a hurry from an acceleration standpoint as well as handling.
Bob
PS....I'm one of those backwards crazy hicks that likes the live axle, so I hope Mustang sticks with it, and sure would be nice if someone offered a live axle swap for Camaro (hint hint to someone....).
Ford engineers are not dumb - and they are working significantly fewer lbs, giving them an advantage from the start. *IF* Mustang stays ~300 lbs lighter than Camaro, and *if* it gets a 380-ish+ HP 5.0, things will get interesting in a hurry from an acceleration standpoint as well as handling.
Bob
PS....I'm one of those backwards crazy hicks that likes the live axle, so I hope Mustang sticks with it, and sure would be nice if someone offered a live axle swap for Camaro (hint hint to someone....).