NEWS: Lutz Offers Details on the 2010 Chevrolet Camaro
10-01-2007, 07:48 PM
#106
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Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 3,252
Yes you absoloutely did argue my point. T Tops are a compromise YOU are willing to make, where as 1/4 windows are a compromise someone like ME is willing to make. Point being if !/4 windows are gone, in the name of making everything "light and tight" then shouldnt T Tops be as well for the same reason? The only overiding factor would be if GM determined the majority wanted T Tops come hell or high water...
However, it has already been determined that there will be a B-pillar and there won't be T-tops, so this is all just an exercise in blathering about personal preferences (unless you're a winkie club member, of course).
If you agree from that perspective then we are in agreement where it is important. Again, I couldnt care less about T Tops. I dont like them and I hope they will stay off the car using the same logic that killed the 1/4 windows. Trading 1/4 windows for T Tops is not doing everything you can to keep the car "light and tight." Thats all I was saying...
But none of that changes my personal preferences, and of course, none of it affects what GM eventually puts in the car.
Bob
10-01-2007, 08:11 PM
#107
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Okemos, MI
Posts: 9,484
Pillars are given letters in the order that they appear on the car, front to back. The frontmost pillar, regardless of what's connected to it, is the A pillar. The next one is B, and the next one is C, and so on. Most station wagons and SUVs have D pillars. So, technically, Camaro always had a B pillar, but the one that was B before just became C, and we've inserted a new B.
Side note: am I the only one here that doesn't like frameless windows?
10-01-2007, 08:54 PM
#109
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Annapolis MD
Posts: 2,802
I'm sorry - I'm arguing personal biases/wants/desires....not what GM can, should, could, or will do, nor what the majority of people on this website might want. If I were Camaro king, I'd have the T-tops, and pay the weight penalty (even being the weight **** that I am).
However, it has already been determined that there will be a B-pillar and there won't be T-tops, so this is all just an exercise in blathering about personal preferences (unless you're a winkie club member, of course).
However, it has already been determined that there will be a B-pillar and there won't be T-tops, so this is all just an exercise in blathering about personal preferences (unless you're a winkie club member, of course).
On a positive note, Charlie said B pillars would save 50-100 lbs or so. He seemed pretty certain.
Ok - but neither is putting in boom boom stereos, HIDs, heated/powered/leather seats, and numerous other little things that folks seem to want but which I coudl do without.
But none of that changes my personal preferences, and of course, none of it affects what GM eventually puts in the car.
Bob
But none of that changes my personal preferences, and of course, none of it affects what GM eventually puts in the car.
Bob
Last edited by 5thgen69camaro; 10-02-2007 at 03:06 PM.
10-01-2007, 09:44 PM
#110
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 233
T-tops suck. So do sunroofs and convertible tops. Eventually they all leak. I had them on my old IROC-Z and do you know how much replacing that damn weather stripping costs? And every car that I've ever been in that was more than one or two years old and had a sunroof...whistled and had ****ty noise isolation. And convertibles are overweight pigs, unless the car was designed from the get-go as a convertible.
All personal opinion of course (cept for the convertibles being overweight, that's a fact
)
All personal opinion of course (cept for the convertibles being overweight, that's a fact
)
10-01-2007, 11:12 PM
#112
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Surprise, Arizona
Posts: 14
If you really think about it, the pillar can easily be covered. All you have to do is add window tint and it will blend in and NO ONE will see it! I don't see what the big deal is. 5% will completely hide the bar thus making all the disappointment pointless 
10-02-2007, 12:10 AM
#114
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Wichita, Kansas
Posts: 639
People getting their panties in a wad once again!!Yeah, no B-Pillar would have been cool and the thought of cruising with all 4 windows down would be a close second to cruising with T-tops off.
Am I a LITTLE disappointed? Sure. But if it it's "....necessary to keep production costs down and ensure the Camaro's frame is as light and tight and possible." it's an acceptable trade off and in a way is actually a good thing.
Next topic.....
10-02-2007, 12:17 AM
#115
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Yelm, Wa USA
Posts: 2,446
People getting their panties in a wad once again!!Yeah, no B-Pillar would have been cool and the thought of cruising with all 4 windows down would be a close second to cruising with T-tops off.
Am I a LITTLE disappointed? Sure. But if it it's "....necessary to keep production costs down and ensure the Camaro's frame is as light and tight and possible." it's an acceptable trade off and in a way is actually a good thing.
Next topic.....
I have a better time dealing with k-6th graders that didnt like what they got for lunch today over these guys.
10-02-2007, 12:34 AM
#116
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 138
I could care less. In fact I prefer the B-pillar. It's just less to go wrong. Two less window motors, switches, and less weather stripping that could eventually leak. I'm just a little concerned about the 2010 date. I hope the car still comes out around december 08-january 09. And if they are going to call it a 2010 it better have at least 430 hp available because I don't want to have to wait 2 years for a bigger engine. I don't want a super camaro with over 500 hp but I will not buy one with less than 400 horse.
10-02-2007, 05:01 AM
#117
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Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 3,252
....which is why all of you took the time to whine about all of us that decided to reply to the original topic in the first place.
Lets just all be kool-aid drinking cheerleaders. Then things will be just grand.
Lets just all be kool-aid drinking cheerleaders. Then things will be just grand.
10-02-2007, 07:57 AM
#118
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 388
I think everyone griping about a pillar has totally lost perspective. Jason made a great point about being glad we're getting a REAL CAMARO instead of some fwd, 4 cylinder joke. I agree with him and no matter what anyone says, the presence of a B-pillar does not make this car any less of a Camaro.
What also amazes me about this discussion (such as it is) is based on people complaining about a design feature that will improve crash protection. So all of you complaining about "the" pillar are effectively saying that your styling preference takes precedent over GM building safer cars at a marketable price. That's insane. If any of you choose not to buy a Camaro because GM made it safer than the one that came out 4 DECADES AGO - fine, don't buy one. In fact, I implore you to not buy one - I don't want the bad word of mouth to kill what is looking right now like an awesome car. The rest of us will drive one and be quite happy (and safe), thanks.
Put me down for a STFU edition Camaro, please........
10-02-2007, 08:21 AM
#119
Prominent Member
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,282
I guess since I've known this info for over a year, I've long since gotten over it....I don't like it either, but whatcha' gonna' do? 
Issues of weight, safety, sound and weatherseals aren't worth the trade offs to me.
That being said, are there any coupes being produced today that don't have a B-pillar?
Issues of weight, safety, sound and weatherseals aren't worth the trade offs to me.
That being said, are there any coupes being produced today that don't have a B-pillar?
10-02-2007, 09:09 AM
#120
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Okemos, MI
Posts: 9,484
If you roll over a t-top 4th gen and something hits the glass, the glass will shatter into tiny little pieces. The driver's and passenger's heads are then exposed to whatever is out there. I don't see how that could be considered "as safe as the hard tops if not safer."
That said, I have t-tops and love them.