Yeah, I've been seriously considering the same myself. Not for the issue of the top though, but the issue of when "bad-@ss" is going to come out. As much as I love the look of the 5th Gen, I'm getting VERY impatient for a new car. I don't think I'm ready to settle for "only" 430hp (IF the Camaro gets the LS3) in a 3,700+lbs (more than likely) car. Do I really want to wait another 2 years for a 500+hp Camaro?? Ummmm......probably not.

Honestly, I've really been considering to just say "$crew it" and order a 2008 Corvette. The way I look at it, not only will it handle a hell of a lot better, but 436hp in a 3,200lb car should EASILY be quicker than a 5th Gen unless it's making well over 500hp. I'd also be willing to bet that taking into account my wife's "GM suppler" discount, that C6's price (roughly $45-$47K depending on which suspension I order and if I want both tops) would probably be about the same or even cheaper than the "bad-@ss" Camaro. The only con would be being limited to only 2 seats.

About all that's keeping me from pulling the trigger is my suspicion that GM may have a surprise in store for us in 2009. If you've read any of my posts/suspicions/rants in the powertrain section you know what I'm talking about!

....oops, my rambling post has absolutely nothing to do with the B-pillar does it?

 

First, let me say thanks to JasonD and others for the innumerable informative answers on all things discussed here. A tremendous effort!

But safety? Low cost? Do we buy Camaros for these reasons?

Yes, I know there's a balance to strike. But the simple thing for me is that I've owned three Camaros in a row (84 Z28, 91 Z28, and 02 SS) with absolutely delightful, joyful T-Tops in them, and I can't let go of them easilly.

Perhaps they will be added later to the 5th Gen. I will remain hopeful, despite rigid budgeting and excessive government do-goodery.

 

Ah but you have to remember it's not our costs - but GM's. Plus, I think the car has to pass certain safety reqs in different markets now as well. Since GM seem to be relatively serious about selling the Camaro in Europe (along with the rest of the range) I think they're just trying to please everyone with one car. Impossible, but there you go.

I agree on the Corvette thing though. By the time the Camaro gets to the UK I may have already gotten a new car

 

Only 430hp? I feel bad for GM that they couldnt meet your high standards. Cant wait? Used Z06's are starting to hit the lot, make your move now.



sacrafice is a b*tch, but thats what it comes down too. You dont seem too into the idea of a Camaro, I suggest you just get the Vette.


SURPRISE!! GM isnt going to release the car any earlier, and I expect them to hold out for ONE year till they release any type of major insane engine version. Pull the trigger, get the Vette.


Nope, but judging by your comments, you arent a Camaro kinda guy after all. Its Vette time, make it happen.

 

Uh...YEAH!! Safety...um Id like to enjoy my life AND my car. Not to mention that it will be a hell of a selling point, and something that GM will need to sell the car in the future, to meet higher and higher crash standards here and abroad. Cost? Again...YEAH. I would hope that the cost of the car will be manageable enough for a lot of Camaro enthusiats to purchase, and not just have a giant dividing line between a 20k V6 and a 35k V8.

I also like ttops, but they would look horrible on this car. They will not fit the design at all. I would like to see some sort of cool sunroof, like the dual plane glass roof on the CTS. GM seems to be a big fan of crazy style sunroofs, ie G6/Aura's multi pannel one, CTS's dual pane, SRX's giant glass roof, Astra's extended windshield, Lambda's sky view stuff, and even my Maxx's rear skylight.

I doubut it due to budget, but more due to style and saftey.

 

So, in terms of safety, I'm guessing you feel targa's or 'verts shouldn't be an option on any car either?

 

I don't know how you've worked out that a Corvette will be cheaper than a Camaro because of the supplier discount Since the Camaro is made by GM and the Corvette is as well, they're both eligible for a discount and since they both drop in price, the Camaro will ALWAYS be cheaper. And I'm pretty sure that higher insurance rates for a Vette may be a con beyond just the number of seats.

I totally agree with being impatient - if the car came out tomorrow it wouldn't be soon enough for me. What I don't understand is how that desire in some people has become "I'm buying a _______"......ummm....if you love the Camaro so much and are SO impatient for it, why would you think so easily of getting something else? If it were any other car - any "utility" car - I can see driving anything in a broad spectrum, but we're talking about a Camaro - it's a pleasure car first and foremost and there isn't ANYONE who can claim they cannot wait! They may not like to wait - and they may need to drive something less desirable while waiting, but they can still wait since it is a pleasure car.

And I'm not just speaking out of my butt here. My TA just crossed 168k miles and it's needing a bunch of stuff - suspension, trans (possibly), tires, and may be leaking oil. Rather than sink a few thousand into it (just guessing here), it may be more cost effective for me to get something cheap that I can drive year 'round. If that's the case, I may get an AWD Vibe to drive (which is a far cry from a TA WS6). I'll hate it on one level, but on the other, I won't have had a choice because it will be the lesser of two evils.

Since my TA is my daily driver, I could just as easily say "I can't wait for a Camaro" and go buy a 'stang......but, it's not just about driving any muscle car - it's about driving MY muscle car, the car that *I* want and since I first saw it, that's the new Camaro. So I get the impatience for a new car, I'm right there with you, but I can't see that impatience leading to buying a more expensive car.......

 

I never said "low cost" for a reason. I said "costs". There are other factors involved besides monetary ones. For instance, added weight. By removing structural strength from the roof section to incorporate t-tops would require additional structural strength to be added elsewhere to achieve roll over and crash results that would allow the production Camaro to be sold to consumers. (Thus the "safety" requirements.) This would also require some tweaking to account for the additional load (weight) of the t-tops. Even Camaro coupes sold without t-tops would need these added improvements as it wouldn't be cost effective for GM to produce two different versions of the coupe. (See my other posts about added weight above the vehicle's center of mass for more reasons why I think this is a bad idea.)

GM isn't simply going to build an un-safe Camaro because then it would be doomed from the word "go". Furthermore its a Chevy, not a Cadillac, which means it also needs to be affordable.

To be honest, with today's safety standards and the fact that they are getting more stringent each year, I doubt we'll ever see a t-top on a production Camaro again... unless GM can figure a way to get it classified as a convertible. (Part of the reason I suggested elsewhere in this forum that if you want t-tops or a targa top, buy a convertible and wait for the aftermarket to develop a hard-top with provisions for them.)

 

430hp 5 years ago would have been insane in a Camaro. But I'm greedy and I want more. Nothing wrong with that. And a used Z06 is out of my price range, but thanks for the suggestion.

Hmmmm....I got out of work on a Friday at 2am, got some sleep, drove more than 2 1/2 hours to K.C. JUST to see the Concept, drooled over it & took more than 100 pics of it over, drove home 2 1/2 hours, threw the uniform on and rolled into work at 2pm Friday afternoon. Yeah, I guess I'm not into the idea of a new Camaro. And thanks for the Vette advice.

I'm NOT expecting it to be released any earlier than 2009 myself, but I am expecting/hoping that the "bad-@ss" will be out in the first year. Thanks again for the Vette advice.

I still have my first Camaro (a 78 Z28) I bought 22 years ago, I've owned a 92 Z28, 95 Z28, 01 SS, and now a 96 Z28.....Yeah, I guess you're right, I'm not a Camaro guy after all.

.....oh yeah, thanks for the Corvette advice....again.

You seem to be taking it personally that I dare express any doubts about waiting for the bad-@ss Camaro and dare to mention another car. Lighten up man, this is a DISCUSSION board and I was discussing my thoughts as to wanting to wait another 2 years for a car.

And what's up with the Corvette hate? I run into Camaro hate occasionally on the Corvette boards and I consider it just as much B.S. over there as Vette hate over here.

 

I'm assuming (possibly incorrectly) that the bad-@ss Camaro will NOT be eligible for the "supplier" discount as the Z06 is NOT eligible. I'm also fully expecting that greedy dealers will jack the price of the bad-@ss Camaro up similarly to the way they jacked up the Z06 when it first came out. That's why I'm thinking that the top Camaro may not necessarily be cheaper than a base Corvette.

Believe it or not, most guys who went from a 4th Gen to a C5 actually had their insurance drop. Of course there's no way of telling yet if it will be similar when comparing the 5th Gen to C6.

And I can totally see what you're saying about waiting for the Camaro, but we have two entirely different ways of looking at it.

I like both the 5th Gen and C6 ....A LOT. If I could I'd get both I would, but I can't. I went to the Kansas City car show as a "pilgrimage" to make my mind up of which I liked best. When I saw the Concept in person, the hair on the back of my neck stood up! I ABSOLUTELY LOVED IT!! I decided to wait on the Camaro since then up to about a month or so ago. I'm back on the fence now. Even if the prices were the same, there's A LOT to be said for being able to order a Corvette NOW the way I want it as opposed to having to wait until 2010 to get a Camaro the way I want it.

.....hell, I'm still not sure

 

Greedy indeed.

IMO, anyone that uses the word "only" in the same sentence as 430 horsepower while talking about any car, let alone one that carries 4 or more people and is likely to cost $30K in todays money is living in some distorted world.

You brought up buying a Corvette instead, not him.

Not likely.

Again, you're the one who brought up buying a Vette and you're the one who seems to be dissatisfied with "only" 430 horsepower.

As a person sitting on the sidelines, that's not what I read at all. If I buy a Challenger or a Ute, it's because I find it to be closer to what I want, or simply put, I want one.

But at the same time, I'm not hurling discontents at the Camaro. The top Camaro isn't coming out fast enough. 430 horses isn't enough. I don't see myself as paying the same high price and "markups" for a Camaro version of a Shelby GT500. 430 horsepower in a car that (best guess) weighs marginally under a GTO is more than enough to win any global "Bang for the buck" competition at the price target Camaro is aiming for.

But, what's going to make this Camaro worthwhile ISN'T horsepower numbers. It's going to be the quality, content, and the spirit of the car itself. Something that was IMO has been missing for some time. The 5th gen Camaro won't need to have gobs of horsepower to make it a worthwhile car, and that's what's going to actually make the 5th gen.

 

Guilty
......I've been getting that from my wife and a few of my friends too!

 

So what's the deal with this B-Pillar?

200+ posts we have lost our minds!

 

Naw, like it was posted before, there's just not much else to talk about in terms of the Camaro.

 

You talked about it. Only telling you what you want to hear.

Thats pretty cool. But I guess since I took 4 days off of work in early Jan of 2006, drove from NJ to Detroit for 10 hours, hung out with some very cool people for 2 days, saw the concept when it was unvield to the world, then drove 10 hours home, makes me more of a Camaro enthusiast? Maybe its the fact that both my grandfather and father both purchased Camaro's new, and that I still have both?
Or maybe its the fact that no matter how cool and awesom the Vette is, Ill wait 5 years for a Camaro. Its not a test of how hard core you are, but you sound like you could go either way here. You are just looking for a flashy fast car. I think that, in the end, you will be happier with a Vette, since you (and others) keep bringing it up.

Me too, but its just the matter of keeping buzz up. Happens with every single car.

See above

Thats fine, but understand that your desire for the car is different then my desire for the same car. You seem like you could be satisified pretty easily with a car already in production.

I love Corvettes. I drooled just as hard over the Z06 as I did the Camaro. I still do. I assosiate cars to girls, like many do.
Vette is the hot chick at the fancy club, with the hot expensive Dior dress on, with the heals, and an amazing body. She is amazing, and for one night of fun, its great. But she is clearly over what you need, very demanding and very high maintence.
Camaro is the cute chick that is fun to be with, and someone you can talk to about anything. She looks good in your tshirt and boxers. She's been there for you when you are down, and you can always hang out with her without feeling out of place. She fits you, and she always smiles when she sees you.

Thats how I see it. So it is semi personal, and it still puts a smile on my face every time I see any one of the concepts.