NEWS: Hyundai Genesis Coupe Beats Camaro and Challenger in Power-to-Weight Ratio
11-03-2008, 10:40 AM
#61
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Let's compare apples with apples shall we? Build the 5th gen Camaro in Asia where labor and materials are much cheaper and our North American safety laws for manufacturing can be ignored, and I'd be willing to bet GM could be a lighter, faster and better Genesis fighter. 
11-03-2008, 02:26 PM
#63
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Well, you should take that up with Hyundai, since this is what they say:
Originally Posted by Hyundai
Genesis Coupe uses the same flexible rear-wheel drive architecture originally developed for the Genesis sport sedan.
11-03-2008, 03:04 PM
#64
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Nonetheless, the V8 doesn't fit in the coupe, which means there are significant differences. And, since we're talking about weight, it's worthwhile to note that according to Hyundai's web site, the the Genesis sedan with the V8 weighs 4012 pounds!
11-03-2008, 03:16 PM
#66
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I did...that's why I asked the question. You would have had GM take the time and $$ to develop a brand new archetecture for the Camaro? I would be extremely worried it would delay the production of the Camaro significantly.
Isn't that like asking: "Which will sell better, a Prius or a Hummer?" Not particularly fair on a comparison-level.
I vauquely remember that it was Hyundai, themselves, who said it wouldn't fit. Don't have a link/quote, though...
Isn't that like asking: "Which will sell better, a Prius or a Hummer?" Not particularly fair on a comparison-level.I vauquely remember that it was Hyundai, themselves, who said it wouldn't fit. Don't have a link/quote, though...
11-03-2008, 03:39 PM
#67
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I did...that's why I asked the question. You would have had GM take the time and $$ to develop a brand new archetecture for the Camaro? I would be extremely worried it would delay the production of the Camaro significantly.
Isn't that like asking: "Which will sell better, a Prius or a Hummer?" Not particularly fair on a comparison-level.
I vauquely remember that it was Hyundai, themselves, who said it wouldn't fit. Don't have a link/quote, though...
Isn't that like asking: "Which will sell better, a Prius or a Hummer?" Not particularly fair on a comparison-level.I vauquely remember that it was Hyundai, themselves, who said it wouldn't fit. Don't have a link/quote, though...
2) Prius vs Hummer? You'll have to explain that to me.
3) I remember that there was a report last year that the V8 wouldn't fit the coupe. AFAIK, that didn't come directly from Hyundai.
11-03-2008, 04:34 PM
#68
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Aren't you precisly stating that you would like a Camaro and that the Camaro would fill in your wife's criteria too ?
I really don't understand, you seem to describe the car you'd like as being the Camaro, and that your wife's taste for a cheap sporty 2-door coupe would be spot-on with the Camaro, probably a V6, yet you seem to hold a grudge saying GM has nothing you would want ??
Surely you are not suggesting that you and your wife cannot wait a few more months to get your new cars... surely you are not alluding that the Camaro won't fit your criteria ??
I really don't understand, you seem to describe the car you'd like as being the Camaro, and that your wife's taste for a cheap sporty 2-door coupe would be spot-on with the Camaro, probably a V6, yet you seem to hold a grudge saying GM has nothing you would want ??
Surely you are not suggesting that you and your wife cannot wait a few more months to get your new cars... surely you are not alluding that the Camaro won't fit your criteria ??
I have little interest in a car that heavy. I have exactly NO interest in a Camaro that heavy. Period. Big... I could probably tolerate. My current 4th gen is big and I've lived with it this long. The ridiculous interior... I could probably tolerate if the rest of the package was there for me. I simply CANNOT, however, live with a car that is more than 500 lbs heavier than my '96 and runs the same width tire.
I'm sure this will be an extremely nice street car. From everything I've seen, it'll be one of the nicest cars at it's price point. Problem is, it's just not a Camaro, I don't care how it's spun. I don't care what the fender says. At the end of the day, it's really a modern Chevelle. Nothing wrong with that. It's just not right for me. Knock 300 lbs out of the car, give it smaller diameter but wider wheels and a "fighter cockpit" like interior and I'm first in line even at $10K over what it lists for now.
My wife isn't a Camaro girl. Too "ruffian" for her I guess. She was, however, interested in a CTC or perhaps a coupe version of the G8. Then she found out what those cars weigh and how big they really are. She's tired of her current car (which she refers to as a boat) and it's only ~3500 lbs. She dearly wants a Solstice coupe but it is just horribly impractical and it doesn't seem like the long term fit/finish/quality is there.
So yeah... what else is there?
11-03-2008, 06:06 PM
#69
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Hey, I'm just messing with ya, I noticedyou drive a stang.
Last edited by 8Banger; 11-03-2008 at 06:09 PM.
11-03-2008, 10:49 PM
#70
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1) They had the time, had it been approved 3 years ago when it was being internally debated. And it wouldn't have cost any more than what was spent on Zeta. The big bonus for GM would have been an architecture which could have given years of ROI in our current environment, rather than one who's business case has virtually imploded and is all but dead right out of the gate.
) I guess I just don't feel like it would have been worth it. What they have already is class-leading in nearly every aspect...and if the rumors are true, they're updating Zeta to be lighter, etc...so the car could benefit from that in years to come(sooner rather than later, hopefully), and then really throw the Genesis coupe through the ringer.You compared the coupe's base-model fuel-sipper (comparatively) to the competitions high-end, stupid-fast model (which consequently consumes more fuel)...I just felt it was as strange a comparison as a Prius vs a Hummer.
I want to point out, too, that I don't think this Genesis coupe is bad in any way...but I'm cautious in giving it any praise...yet.
11-03-2008, 11:30 PM
#71
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To bad an LS3 bolted into a 3,402 lbs Camaro would produce about the same results as bolting an LS3 into a 3,402 lbs Genesis - in two words "not pretty".
11-04-2008, 02:40 AM
#72
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The Genesis Coupe was based on a LARGE sedan architecture, and it doesn't seem to have hurt it.
What we don't know is how much a V8 400hp Coupe would have weighed. The sedan gains about 300 pounds going from the V6 to the V8. The Coupe might gain more, because the basic structure has undoubtedly been reengineered not to take the V8.
I think that GM needs a RWD coupe the size of the Genesis (Alpha, hopefully). Whether it has a V8 and is called Camaro is grist for debate.
What we don't know is how much a V8 400hp Coupe would have weighed. The sedan gains about 300 pounds going from the V6 to the V8. The Coupe might gain more, because the basic structure has undoubtedly been reengineered not to take the V8.
I think that GM needs a RWD coupe the size of the Genesis (Alpha, hopefully). Whether it has a V8 and is called Camaro is grist for debate.
11-04-2008, 02:50 AM
#73
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And it weighs the same as the G8 GT. I don't think Hyundai has any secret sauce, so why could Zeta not have been shrunk if GM had the same goals as Hyundai (310hp top engine)?
As someone else pointed out, the Camaro was designed for a 550+hp LSA V8. It seems as though all models carry much of the structure for that engine.
If the Camaro had been designed from the start for the 300hp V6 as the largest engine, then I don't see why it couldn't be close to the Genesis Coupe in size and weight.
Maybe we should start a poll. Who would rather have a 300hp V6 Camaro weighing 3400 pounds versus a 3860 pound 422hp V8 Camaro.
In this market, I think the 3400 pound model would do better, but you'd get screams from the Camaro loyalists.
As someone else pointed out, the Camaro was designed for a 550+hp LSA V8. It seems as though all models carry much of the structure for that engine.
If the Camaro had been designed from the start for the 300hp V6 as the largest engine, then I don't see why it couldn't be close to the Genesis Coupe in size and weight.
Maybe we should start a poll. Who would rather have a 300hp V6 Camaro weighing 3400 pounds versus a 3860 pound 422hp V8 Camaro.
In this market, I think the 3400 pound model would do better, but you'd get screams from the Camaro loyalists.
Last edited by teal98; 11-04-2008 at 02:58 AM.
11-04-2008, 02:53 AM
#74
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I agree with this, by the way. Starting off with a 350 pound weight handicap in that comparison will hurt. I predict that every comparison test will mention it.
11-04-2008, 03:04 AM
#75
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It'd be real interesting to know the estimate from Hyundai engineers as to how much weight a V8 Coupe model would add. We know the front end would have to be enlarged as a start.
When Lexus squeezed a V8 into the IS, they added almost 300 pounds. The IS is based on the GS platform, but reduced in size, and originally V6-only. Of course, the IS-F is still about 50 pounds lighter than the Camaro SS/LS3, and the IS-F has an 8-spd auto.
The GS460 is close to the same weight as the G8 GT, but the GS350 is quite a bit lighter than the G8 V6. I don't know if that's because the GM V8s are so much lighter than the Lexus V8s (with the V6s being about the same weight) or because Lexus puts more differentiation in the V6 and V8 models.